Seriously people, whats with the attitude?

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Indeed, and Aspies will never know how it feels to be an NT.

Seriously people, it seems that on this forum people who have AS deem themselves superior to "NT's". It's really childish. Obviously the other will never be able to think as the other. Thats kind of "duh". We Aspies can claim we understand "NT's" but really we don't/can't any more then they us.

I know this is a forum for people with AS/Autism in general but really, some of you guys need to lose the ego. And an ego is not AS/NT specific btw.

It really annoys me that on a board meant for getting help with issues and learning from each other and giving advice such a common attitude seems to persist that Aspies are better. Neither is better. They both have pro's and con's, as does everything else.

It also seems to me that allot of AS users on this board also think that NT's are the enemy. Yes, it is not the Aspies who try to cure autism (for the most part) and come up with bogus data to scare people. But really it's very few people who do.

Humans in general fear change/the unknown/being different. It's really no different then one racial group looking at another with a racist view. That view extends both ways in every case, I promise you. Not all people from group A hate group B, and not everyone from group B likes group A.

Same thing here. Not all NT's hate us, fear us, or want to change us. It seems to me in allot of cases people with AS on here "fear" those NT's more then they fear us.

For being a group that claims to be so smart we can act awfully dumb. If 100 NT's wanted to "cure" Austism, who gives a s**t? really. Those 100 (or even 1000) may make a fuss and such, but then they get what they want when we react. I have seen so many posts with topics like "Let Aspies take over" and "We should act out because of what they are doing to us".

If we give these responses, it gives them fuel. Since we are "so smart", you would think we would know better.

Btw, I am an Aspie. I don't deny it, I don't want to change it. But really people, grow up.

Agree with what you said, but I don't think this is related to intelligence but to wisdom (or maturity if you prefer that term). For example here recently there was a cardiologist who murdered his child since his wife divorced, I am pretty sure the guy is quite brilliant since he is a medic, but maturity on the other end he is quite lacking, for he got a complete lack of emotional control to the point of physically affecting other.


Also there is nothing wrong to think your way to be superior to the others way, through the problematic come not classing those that don't follow your way has inferior, which is where most of the problematic come from.

I'm glad you've had such a good experience with NTs, but not all of us have. I had never heard of AS when I graduated high school (1979), and wasn't diagnosed until 2008. I endured both physical and psychological abuse from NTs throughout school and into the workplace, to the point of trying to kill myself in high school. It only stopped in 2007, when my disabilities allowed me to quit working.

Fearing/resenting NTs is not a matter of maturity, it's a matter of experience.

Once again don't group us all together. I don't hate NT's but certain NT's. I barely use the word anymore.
We shouldn't separate ourselves from them. We're all human. Sure, you come across some jerks in life but how do you know that they don't have AS themselves?

QFT.

Actually the mature way to view this would be the resent those that abused you not one of classification group they were part off.

KallMa: I am not saying most of my experience with NT's were good. Most of my peers treated me like crap, bullied me, made fun of me, etc.

I would like to say that it may be NT's who bullied you, but thats kind of obvious, no? What I mean is who else was there? Also people have become more tolerant (if just a little) of others with differences over time. Everyone who is different in school gets targeted unless they are feared.

Also you sort of make it sound like only Aspies/Autistic kids get abuse by NT's. In reality there are so many bullying cases in schools, and not so many Aspies. People pick on others who are different. People. People on here make it sound like people with AS and people who are NT are different species.

And I hope to heck you are not saying that Aspies are innocent. Some of the most vicious bullies I have known had AS/Autism/Something. The difference is they are less. Just because one is AS or w/e does not mean they are by default a good person who is just misunderstood and will go through life the butt of every joke.

I am sorry you were a victim of social abuse in school. I truly am. But so was I. So were most of the people on WP. But don't make NT's out to be another type of life that is so different from us.

In some ways I feel a little less sympathy (sorry if thats not what you want). You say from 1979-2007. Thats enough time to either stick up for yourself or stop caring. Really it is. If you were a target for so long it means you never changed. Once people form an opinion of you, it's hard to change it. So sometime to force a new opinion, or like me, grow a thick skin and not care so much. If your a victim for so long, something is wrong. And don't tell me there was nothing you could do either. I don't buy it.

I apologize if this seems overtly targeted, but your post, to me, says: You just got lucky but everyone in my life was a jerk.

I don't hate all NT's either. I have been around long enough on the planet to meet fantastic NT's and also less than savoury ASD people.


Also, with regard to the OP's statement:

Many people here come here to WP as it is a safe place for them to express the pain and the difficulty of being ASD and living in a world that is predominantly NT in it structures and bureaucracies and behavioural and emotional and social expectations. If ASD people need to have a little gripe about that here and there on WP, perhaps you could afford them the right and let it go.
If they try to do it out in the real world (which is what is often done to them by NT's unwittingly by virtue of the fact the society and culture is normalised in terms of prevailing NT ways,) they get bullied and pilloried.

Please, I would ask you to respect and understand that perspective and take heed.
It is not necessarily my own (as I state at the outset of this post) but I do understand why others need to vent at times and do so with vehemence and with such fervour.

many here have spent a lifetime of not fitting in, of being criticised and bullied, of trying hard, of really finding life tough and I take my hat off to all humans who have had the courage to do keep on going in spite of incredible odds and hardhships.
If your experience has been different - you are one of the very, very lucky ones...... .

Last edited by millie on 03 Jan 2010, 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well said. And I think if people with AS separate themselves from NT's like this then they'll never have friends. I have a few NT friends. There are some things that makes me shake my head at them but they're good company. Although some are downright horrible I only talk to for a few minutes then leave before they offend me. Thing is I give people a chance.

Agreed. Hatred toward an entire group based on the actions of certain members is an unfortunate path to tread.

Allow me to address this post if you would:

I have no problem with people venting frustration. I understand full well the difficulty (see; I have AS in the post).

If they go out in the "real world" they get bullied? Maybe that is true in some, or most cases. But it's not any different then any minority voicing an opinion to the mass. Is posting on an open forum really that much better? Maybe it helps some vent. Forums are good for things like that. However my post was in regard to a alarming number of posts/threads on WP I have seen over the years (I have been a member for awhile, just not a poster till now) that give the "NT's" exactly what they want to hear.

Really, if people care so much, be it an NT or an Aspie, then it's up to them to change things for themselves. I am 18, very young, I know this however:

The world is not going to hand you anything
Nothing is free
Nothing will change if all people do is talk
Hatred/Misunderstanding will continue with any two groups of different views/minds until people talk
If your a victim in life, bullied in school and work, its up to YOU to change it.
You can't change everyone, but you can change yourself and thats a start.

As I said, I am 18. For over 10 years I have been bullied in school. Picked on verbally, mentally, even physically at points. I was angry, and to an extent still am. However: I am not going to put all the blame on NT's. Some of the blame is on me.

Saying that I live in an NT world and theres nothing I can do about it really in real life so I will go on a forum and vent is a really useless view if thats all your doing.

If people with AS want it easier, then they need to make it easier. I don't mean with violence or mob style protest though. If you want your life to be better, then do it.

Of course there are some example were this is impossible; refugee in Sudan for example. However I don't think we get many of those on WP (maybe I'm wrong).

Again also do not make it sound like NT's and Aspies are different races. Seriously. Do you know why the world is predominantly NT minded? It's because the majority of people are NT. If you really want to look at it from that point of aspie vs NT, then I say they are just conditions. They are NT, we are Aspie. So be it. If your Black and I'm white and that other guy is Asian, it does not mean we are not still all people.

Maybe if we stopped blaming our issues on NT's and either accepted that we are different and so be it or work with others, both NT and not to make the word a more accepting place things will get done.

^ let me know if you hold the same very certain views in another 25 years.

as it stands, I actually agree with some of what you say about self-accountability and self-responsibility and keeping a check on a "blame mentality."

BUT...and it is a big BUT...I also understand that not everyone who posts on WP has had the benefit of a supportive family, college education or college prospects, a zippy little home computer and computer games, net access etc. and supportive clinicians and aid.

Some have to access the net from libraries. some are homeless, and some have poor ToM that makes improving their prospects a little more difficult. Some struggle more. Some struggle less. That is my main point in a nutshell. At the same time, if some pre-college kid also needs to rant - then good on them. I think this is a fine place to do it. And it may just serve a purpose - it may ease their pain and help them to connect with others. (I note you post a rant in the General Discussion section about another issue. And while i do not relate to your rant, I fully respect and support your need to do so.)


it can be easy being self-accountable when we have the support......
not so easy when we have none of the supports i list above.

i just hope everyone has a place to rant if they need to.

Understood. I know I am very fortunate to have such support. I don't take it for granted at all.

However (since this seems to be a constructive back and forth debate):

It may be true that not all, or even most kids have this support. But you open up another can of worms, as well as still not seeing the main point I am trying to make.

First the point: My objection is not to the rants, the raves, the anger, the request for help, or any of that. My objection is to labeling (and we know how much we like labels!) NT's as the bad guys always.

Yes there are many many MANY more NT's then Aspies, but I would request you not make it sound like Aspies cannot be mean to one another. My objection is saying "we have AS, the world is against us, NT's are evil"

As to the can of worms mentioned:

In regard to the middle two parts of your post, you make it sound like this is AS specific. Plenty of kids/teens who are NT don't have the support they need. Its not like NT's be default don't need just as much help (even if in other ways) then Aspies do. Maybe there is a high % of Aspies in bad situations. There are also many more NT's in such.

I speak from experience, I am not making this up. I'll even let you in on some personal stuff to back this point up since we are talking about the pre college age.:

For 2.5 years I lived at a residential boarding school for those with "special needs". It ranged from kids who were borderline MR, to kids who had severe anger issues. Out of the 200+ student body, MAYBE 10 had Aspergers. The rest of them also did not have homes in many cases, nor nice computers, or supportive families (many had non) and quite frankly most of the clinicians sucked. so, 185 non Aspie kids in this place with needs. I take out 5 because there were maybe 5 kids who were just there because they had nowhere else but were mentally fine.

All these kids needed to rant. Most of them were angry at life and where they were. Yes, *I* have had competitively excellent support. Many of my peers did not, including those with AS.

You know whats funny about it though? about 10 kids with AS in a population of 180+ NT's and most of us got along, helped each-other, etc. Sure there was drama and fighting and stuff, but it was not based around Aspie/NT at all. We were all people. We had to work together to keep each other sane. NTs/Aspies/Bordies all helped each other.

So, please don't make it sound like only those with AS struggle. My original point was aimed at the posts I see claiming how NT's are evil thing or how Aspies should start a rebellion and take over. We are no better then them and they are no better then us. It's the individual thats counts.

Personally, I believe that we are different. We are very different. While we may look like NT's and have the same bodies as the do, our spirit is different. I have a hard time understand them as they do in understanding me. I have lived in my local area for most of my life and yet, the culture is almost completely foreign to me. While I can predict to a reasonable certainty how NT people will react in certain situations, I have no idea why. I'm not saying that I am superior to them or that they are superior to me, I will say that we are different.

Huh?
The silly thing is you have failed to grasp I agree with your point.

What I was attempting to highlight was that the retributive bitterness and ranting that you might just see here on WP (directed at NT people sometimes by some posters) is borne out of complex issues and requires understanding and a degree of compassion.

You see, you cannot change the fact that ASD people are a minority group and therefore can suffer the indignities of any minority through a lack of understanding and ignorance by others. I like to have a broad understanding of that when I see others on WP having a generalised and stereotypical rant about NT people, (which, even if a little misguided, IS I think, understandable.) That is the point I was directing towards your thread topic.

And of course I realise all human beings can struggle. Not just ASD people. How absurd to assume or maintain otherwise.


As for labels - they come in handy. They can also be destructive.
Read up on labelling theory - there's a whole heap of sociological theory on the pro's and con's of labeling and stereotyping.

As for your thread title -- "Seriously people, what's with the Attitude?"' --- it's a little too stereptypical and accusatory of others, for my liking.

Last edited by millie on 03 Jan 2010, 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think we are different do to "wiring", but not by design so to speak. Also who are "we". Thats saying everyone with ASD is in a group that will never understand or be able to relate correctly. In a way, using "We" herds us into a corner. Is every person with ASD imbued with a different "spirit" then those we consider NT.

Also, to everyone:

NT is a term used to describe those without ASD. The way people on here are using it is like Aspies are cats, NT's are dogs (I am a cat person, hence the order). NT's and Aspies are not only both animals in this, but I would say we are both "cats" (or w/e animal you choose). Now, between the "cats" there are those who have a general sense of life and make it the norm. Then the ASD group, the smaller group of "cats" has a different set of views, and can't for the most part understand wtf the main group is doing. Maybe so, but they are still both cats (in this analogy)

And also the people responding saying "I have had bad experiences" or "I cannot understand the people around me" are right. They are referring to themselves. By saying "all people with AS do this and have experienced this" is just dumb. And it's a bad stereotype that is projected on ourselves by others with AS. Now thats just f****d up.