Being beautiful and a scholar: double curse?

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Alla
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14 Jan 2010, 3:28 pm

Many of you know that I am doing my PhD dissertation in a major univeristy. By most accounts, I am also a very beautiful person.....or so I've been told.

My problem is this: I feel that because men see me as beautiful, they are threatened by my intelligence and will try to demean me in subtle ways. Somehow they are threatened by this combo and can't believe that a woman can possibly be both intelligent and beautiful. I can see it in my professors/advisors. They are usually uncomfortable in my presence because they find me very attractive and at the same time will try to subotage my progress or simply ignore my accomplishments. This is often done subconsciously as many of them will never admit to doing this, but it is clear they do it anyway. It seems to me that the only women who get respect in academia are the ones who are ugly, fat, or old. Beautiful women in academia are seen as sex objects and demeaned intellectualy. While discussing the issue of lack of respect, I have been told on one occassion by a certain professor in another dept. who is about 60 "so, my dear, what type of man do you want? You'd do best with a sugar daddy!" This after I complained to him that some academics in my department were treating me like a child who was somehow not very intelligent. I felt so lost!

Do I have to become fat and old to gain the respect of these men or will I pretty much always be seen as a sex object by them? I kind of envy women who can get the respect of their peers.



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14 Jan 2010, 4:01 pm

I agree. Even smart people make that stupid assumption.


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thedaywalker
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14 Jan 2010, 4:18 pm

oh you poor dear beutifull and smart i cant imagine what it would be like living with such a terible burden.



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14 Jan 2010, 4:19 pm

Alla wrote:
Many of you know that I am doing my PhD dissertation in a major univeristy. By most accounts, I am also a very beautiful person.....or so I've been told.

My problem is this: I feel that because men see me as beautiful, they are threatened by my intelligence and will try to demean me in subtle ways. Somehow they are threatened by this combo and can't believe that a woman can possibly be both intelligent and beautiful. I can see it in my professors/advisors. They are usually uncomfortable in my presence because they find me very attractive and at the same time will try to subotage my progress or simply ignore my accomplishments. This is often done subconsciously as many of them will never admit to doing this, but it is clear they do it anyway. It seems to me that the only women who get respect in academia are the ones who are ugly, fat, or old. Beautiful women in academia are seen as sex objects and demeaned intellectualy. While discussing the issue of lack of respect, I have been told on one occassion by a certain professor in another dept. who is about 60 "so, my dear, what type of man do you want? You'd do best with a sugar daddy!" This after I complained to him that some academics in my department were treating me like a child who was somehow not very intelligent. I felt so lost!

Do I have to become fat and old to gain the respect of these men or will I pretty much always be seen as a sex object by them? I kind of envy women who can get the respect of their peers.

once you finish your Phd, you will be fine, all the famous researchers who are on TV are beautiful so I think once you are 'in' the career you will find being beautiful adds to your success. What area are you studying in? the famous biologists and psychologists who are women are all gorgeous so I think it will work in your favour in the end.



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14 Jan 2010, 4:20 pm

That's amazing that you are working on your PhD!! ! I am awed. I think beauty is power and when people feel threatened by power they try to reduce that power in relation to their own (or what they feel is their own) so that they can regain equilibrium. Part of our problem, at least Western European culture is that we don't have any outlet for expressing reverence and respect for the power of feminine appearance, it's either degraded in porn or mocked (again, reducing the threat) because the goddess tradition has been eradicated from our psyche. I don't think there is an easy answer to this problem, it is probably going to follow you through academia. Sometimes in situations where there is not an easy answer, the only thing I can think of is support from people in situations similar to your own, so that you can at least release the frustration and tension from being treated as if you are a threat/sexualized, etc, rather than letting the emotion build up so that you act in ways that are not in your best interests (which is what people are trying to get you to do when they try to knock you off balance emotionally, at least in my experience.)



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14 Jan 2010, 4:22 pm

thedaywalker wrote:
oh you poor dear beutifull and smart i cant imagine what it would be like living with such a terible burden.


It was predictable that someone would make this sort of comment. It's like pushing a button.


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thedaywalker
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14 Jan 2010, 4:32 pm

more like pushing lots of buttons the comment that is.



dddhgg
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14 Jan 2010, 4:37 pm

What's your PhD thesis going to be about, if I may ask? Or at least, what's the field you're working in? It seems to me that this is more of a problem in, say, the humanities or social sciences than in science or mathematics. Mainly because in the latter fields there are much more objective standards with which to assess prospective scientists, at least in my view. A mathematical proof, for instance, is either correct (or at least could easily be made so) or false, and if you produce enough correct ones you almost automatically earn respect.

Maybe a bit of an indiscrete question, but how attractive are you really? I know of at least two very pretty theoretical physicists (saying that as a man) who are also quite brilliant: Lisa Randall (this link) and Janna Levin (this link). Would you say that you're in their "class" (sorry, dreadful word) or even higher? These two ladies are highly esteemed in their fields, especially Mrs. Randall I believe.

Finally, please don't let the male chauvinist pigs and other ignorant tw*ts get the better of you. I too had to struggle in academia, albeit for quite different reasons.


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AnotherOne
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14 Jan 2010, 4:47 pm

Check her out

http://www.ece.rice.edu/~halas/halas.html

Believe me she is sexy, teaches in short skirts but her character (and position nowdays) is very strong so she doesn't hear any demeaning comments. She made it so maybe you can.

Interestingly, I am convinced that my brains (ideas) turn my colleagues on. And yes, you may always be seen as sexy (my ex boss drooled over Naomi) but if you are doing well in your research, believe me they will respect you.



Alla
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14 Jan 2010, 5:23 pm

dddhgg wrote:
What's your PhD thesis going to be about, if I may ask? Or at least, what's the field you're working in?


I won't say for privacy reasons, but I will say that it is in the social sciences.

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It seems to me that this is more of a problem in, say, the humanities or social sciences than in science or mathematics. Mainly because in the latter fields there are much more objective standards with which to assess prospective scientists, at least in my view. A mathematical proof, for instance, is either correct (or at least could easily be made so) or false, and if you produce enough correct ones you almost automatically earn respect.


I thing you are correct in your assumption.


Quote:
Maybe a bit of an indiscrete question, but how attractive are you really? I know of at least two very pretty theoretical physicists (saying that as a man) who are also quite brilliant: Lisa Randall (this link) and Janna Levin (this link). Would you say that you're in their "class" (sorry, dreadful word) or even higher? These two ladies are highly esteemed in their fields, especially Mrs. Randall I believe.


I am not going to post a photo of myself for obvious reasons, but I look a lot like Dita von Teese, especially in this photo:
http://melissadixson.typepad.com/.a/6a0 ... 970b-800wi

I have ivory skin and black hair/brows and hazel eyes. My figure is also much like hers, although I am a bit taller than her.

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Finally, please don't let the male chauvinist pigs and other ignorant tw*ts get the better of you. I too had to struggle in academia, albeit for quite different reasons.


Care to share your story?



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14 Jan 2010, 5:39 pm

Alla wrote:
I am not going to post a photo of myself for obvious reasons, but I look a lot like Dita von Teese, especially in this photo:
http://melissadixson.typepad.com/.a/6a0 ... 970b-800wi

I have ivory skin and black hair/brows and hazel eyes. My figure is also much like hers, although I am a bit taller than her.


Count yourself fortunate. To look like Dita von Teese is quite something. I already knew and liked her looks, by the way. I could, however, easily see it leading to problems with at least some of the academic staff. I'm a male and not attractive, so I don't really have this sort of problem, but, having heard some rumors, it seems to me that at least some professors and senior fellows really are a bunch of horny dogs, underneath all their carefully cultivated bourgeois respectability, and that this problem doesn't really abate with old age. I guess there's nothing more you can do but work steadily onwards and try to impress them with your achievements. And really, do file a complaint or whatever, if they cross the boundary of physical intimacy. There's nothing so vile as improper conduct going unpunished.

Share my own story? Nah, not in full detail anyway. It had to do with my being disabled, with a speech problem and all. Fortunately, I chose mathematics, so after some initial troubles I turned out OK.


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Odin
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14 Jan 2010, 6:32 pm

I like women that are both smart and attractive. :D IMO the people that do that are just insecure jerks. I'd suggest to make yourself look as confident as possible around them, that will send them the message that their BS isn;t affecting you.

BTW, I think Theoretical physicist Lisa Randall is quite the hottie!


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Alla
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14 Jan 2010, 7:39 pm

Odin wrote:
I like women that are both smart and attractive. :D IMO the people that do that are just insecure jerks. I'd suggest to make yourself look as confident as possible around them, that will send them the message that their BS isn;t affecting you.
!


That's what makes them competitive with me and some act like jerks. I am naturally a confident person most of the time, but somehow this confidence is sometimes seen as arrogance.

Even since I took herbal stuff to calm me down, I attract men like flies. Apparently I appear more vulnerable and I've even seen professors change their attitude toward me (more accommodating, less competitive, etc.) Maybe that's the trick.....appear vulnerable while doing PhD and then show my real personality once I'm out.



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14 Jan 2010, 7:41 pm

They are jealous and do the same to good looking males. They want to bring you down to their level. Happens everywhere, even in the physical sciences.



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14 Jan 2010, 8:00 pm

Pobodys_Nerfect wrote:
They are jealous and do the same to good looking males. They want to bring you down to their level. Happens everywhere, even in the physical sciences.


I can't say it never happens, but I do expect it to happen less often, for the reasons pointed out above by me. It helps a lot that in the physical sciences it's often much clearer what's important and what's "correct". I know that some professors think I'm an odd fellow, but once I prove a theorem, no-one is going to take that away from me and I will rise in their esteem proportionally to the importance of the theorem. John Forbes Nash, for instance, was absolutely bonkers (even before his institutionalization), but everyone realized and agreed that his equilibrium theory and his embedding theorem for manifolds were major breakthroughs.


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wildgrape
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14 Jan 2010, 9:55 pm

Every competent, attractive female doctoral student that I have been acquainted with was treated extremely well by male professors. I would go as far as saying their treatment at times appeared to be preferential. Your allegation flies in the face of my experience.

Alla wrote:
I look a lot like Dita von Teese, especially in this photo:


Here's is how you described yourself on a different thread

Quote:
I will tell you though that I look a lot like Nicole Kidman did when she was in her 20s and early 30s, although I am not that tall (about 5'5)


http://www.wrongplanet.netpostp1899731. ... t=#1899731

On yet a different thread I believe you also said that you have long red hair.