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wblastyn
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27 Jan 2010, 4:43 pm

Warning! Brain dump ahead -

So I work part time in a super-market and I find that after working just 4 hours I am exhausted purely from interacting with people. I just find it so draining. I dread having to work full-time, I just don't know how i will cope! :( I mainly find it difficult interacting with my co-workers... they all seem to get on so well and I'm left in the corner like a wall flower, not knowing what to say or do. Obviously, having Asperger's means interacting with people is difficult... it's just so stressful and depressing :(

I even find it difficult knowing what to do or say when I'm interacting with people online... I seem to get attached to people without knowing if they feel the same way about me (i.e. do they view me as a friend?)

I was at a meeting last year for people with Asperger's and I found I was really able to connect with two of the members. We had an in depth discussion about having AS, etc and it just felt so wonderful being able to talk with people who understood you. If I ever tried to have this kind of discussion with the NT's I work with, for example, they either a) wouldnt understand and/or b) think it was too weird that I was talking about something deep and not the weather.

Ever since I got my diagnosis in 2006 (I was 21), I have been really paranoid about making sure I act "normal"... because how I acted before was "wrong". Of course, trying to act normal hasn't made me any more friends and now i feel trapped. I wish I would feel confident enough to act how I want to act, and not worry about people thinking I had a "disease". This is actually a major thing for me. I feel in some ways that I have lost a part of myself ever since getting my diagnosis. For example, when I was with my friends at school I would always say random things, which was usually the first thing that came into my head, and they would think it was funny. It was just seen as me being me. But I stopped doing this ever since I got my AS diagnosis because I felt acting like that was "abnormal" and that if I acted "normal" then I would make lots of friends. Unfortunately this never happened and instead I just feel trapped in this "act normal" mode and i don't know how to get back to being how I was.

Anyway, sorry for my rant but I'm just feeling really low at the minute :(



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27 Jan 2010, 5:12 pm

wblastyn wrote:

For example, when I was with my friends at school I would always say random things, which was usually the first thing that came into my head, and they would think it was funny. It was just seen as me being me. But I stopped doing this ever since I got my AS diagnosis because I felt acting like that was "abnormal" and that if I acted "normal" then I would make lots of friends. Unfortunately this never happened and instead I just feel trapped in this "act normal" mode and i don't know how to get back to being how I was.
(


Don't I know this story. I have troubles with social situations because sometimes I get TOO random or abnormal when I talk.
I think for me though, when I found out about Aspergers, I realized there was no "Normal" or "wrong" way to be. I became content in finding out that this all had a meaning, and that it wasn't my fault.



MrTeacher
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27 Jan 2010, 6:00 pm

Hello.

Possibly you should re-think acting "abnormal". It sounds like an elaborate coping strategy that you have developed to communicate with others. It seems some people like this. Just remember, acting this way can be appropriate - it depends on the situation, timing and who you are with.

There are some strategies and tips that you may find useful.

The STAR method : Stop, Think, Act, Reflect. This is a good method - let other people talk, think about what is appropriate to say, act and then think about it. This will stop you from coming off as rude and impulsive.

Learn relationship building techniques: Say hi, make eye contact, smile, pat people on the back, compliment people (clothes or skills usually works), take an interest in others, find shared interests, learn about family members.

Remember to take 40% of the time and listen 60% of the time. Not all conversations need to have a point. Sometimes people just want to joke or discuss their emotions. Don't be negative or self-depricating - it's a turn off.

Remember to reciprocate emotionally and socially People often want to talk to you and they walk around dropping fishing lines that us aspies miss. Ex. If someone says "I got new tires for my car". This is your time to reciprocate. Maybe they have an interest in their car: come back with questions about their car, talk about your own experience, make a joke to lighten the mood. "I'm pissed off today" "It's not fun being pissed off, what are you mad at? I've been sad before...."

Make a list of around ten questions that will help you with small talk: have you seen the latest movie? How is your family? Did you see that sports game? How about the weather? Did you see the latest...? These questions people like and they provide you with control, safety and routine. They are helpful.

Friendship can be hard to figure out. Think: do you trust that person? What places would you hang out with that person: your house, the gym, the school? If you don't trust that person and you would not want them in your home, they probably are not a close friend. That is my general rule! Other than that, there are people that you likely know and are friendly with, but they are not really friends.

If you want to manage, keep things predictable for you and take control over things. Keep conversations short, predictable and friendly. Don't let people take advantage of you and avoid negative gossip. Remember, you will not be normal. Social conversation is an art - it is always changing and different and your brain can't figure it out in a way that NT people expect you to. I haven't even written anything about non-verbal communication! Also, your quirkiness is something some people like, at the right time ; this is your personality. Just remember there is a time and place for everything.

Some other considerations: How much do you know about your own sensory issues? Do you have suitable burn-out times? You likely need rest after a day of work, if you have roommates, an avid social life then you might just be getting too much for your senses to handle. You also need to do things you enjoy to recharge: what are you doing for your senses that you like: exercise, blankets, clothes, foods, music?

HTH



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27 Jan 2010, 6:41 pm

It can be difficult to be diagnosed and adjust to the idea that your quirks and "bad character" were actually part of a known syndrome... Especially if you have grown up in general culture, and absorbed from people around you and from the media certain ideas about disability. To the general public, disability is bad, tragic, and needs to be "overcome" or hidden... they do not have a concept of disability as a neutral thing that a person might or might not have, like blue eyes or left-handedness (though naturally affecting more of your life than those things). When you find out that you yourself have what is considered a (generally mild) disability, it can be kind of difficult to re-categorize all those ideas you had about the concept without becoming ashamed. I was diagnosed six years ago and am still working on it... often times, the logic of it being quite acceptable to be different comes a long time before your feelings get the point and follow the logic.


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27 Jan 2010, 7:26 pm

Don't withdraw. I've been fumbling. I stumble, but I keep on trying. I don't mind if make errors or fail, as long as I don't replicate it exactly. If your job is too draining, I suggest some counseling/ asking for professional help, so as to determine whether you try to adapt to the job, or try to find another job. I'm not sure how you should handle social situations, but connection with another human is very important to me, hence I will not give it up, I hope you don't give up either. Obviously you don't want to give up the social contact, so keep it up, and ask for help along the way e.g. parents, teachers, counselor - they will help or at least point you in a better direction - at least it's been that way for me.



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27 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

The perspective I'm trying to get and maintain:

Become happy with what's normal behavior for you. The more comfortable you become with your version of normal, the less you will seek validation from others. If you get an odd idea you think would be funny, just let it out. Do your best to filter for stuff that may be offensive, but don't concentrate so hard on the filtering that you cannot interact. If a little of your normal scares someone that doesn't understand the odd behavior, do your best to just laugh it off. If you can just be like "oops, hehe" to yourself, it will feel allot better than "omg, what did I just do." It makes for a more favorable read that others are doing of you during the incident too.

I think most people perceive odd behavior followed by nervousness different than odd behavior followed by "oops, sorry about that, my mouth has a mind of it's own, hehe :P ." If you don't beat yourself up over social accidents, you are more likely to effectively laughing off the incident. Nobody expects you to be perfect, and odd can be cool too. :wtg: The more vanilla style behavior people are constantly confronted with, the more they are bored with "normal" and like to interact with more unique people.

The amount of your normal vs robot-mode for others has to be adjusted a bit based on your audience. Start off with 25% pure "youness" (<-- made a word) and 75% robot; in the social environment where you are most comfortable. Gradually turn up the youness around the people that seem to enjoy it. There will be some people that really enjoy your normal, trust me. Some people won't, but there's no guarantee they would like you even if you were acting "normal."

Nobody is social kung foo artist enough to make everyone like them. Everyone I know is odd in some way. Beating yourself up over not acting completely "normal" is like chasing a mirage. Normal just doesn't exist, so it's not worth beating yourself up for not reaching.



I understand that's allot of fluff and perfect world... but I cannot control other people; I can only control myself, and the above is the perspective I try to have about my "meness."



Last edited by j0sh on 27 Jan 2010, 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

millie
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27 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

MrTeacher wrote:
Hello.

Possibly you should re-think acting "abnormal". It sounds like an elaborate coping strategy that you have developed to communicate with others. It seems some people like this. Just remember, acting this way can be appropriate - it depends on the situation, timing and who you are with.

There are some strategies and tips that you may find useful.

The STAR method : Stop, Think, Act, Reflect. This is a good method - let other people talk, think about what is appropriate to say, act and then think about it. This will stop you from coming off as rude and impulsive.

Learn relationship building techniques: Say hi, make eye contact, smile, pat people on the back, compliment people (clothes or skills usually works), take an interest in others, find shared interests, learn about family members.

Remember to take 40% of the time and listen 60% of the time. Not all conversations need to have a point. Sometimes people just want to joke or discuss their emotions. Don't be negative or self-depricating - it's a turn off.

Remember to reciprocate emotionally and socially People often want to talk to you and they walk around dropping fishing lines that us aspies miss. Ex. If someone says "I got new tires for my car". This is your time to reciprocate. Maybe they have an interest in their car: come back with questions about their car, talk about your own experience, make a joke to lighten the mood. "I'm pissed off today" "It's not fun being pissed off, what are you mad at? I've been sad before...."

Make a list of around ten questions that will help you with small talk: have you seen the latest movie? How is your family? Did you see that sports game? How about the weather? Did you see the latest...? These questions people like and they provide you with control, safety and routine. They are helpful.

Friendship can be hard to figure out. Think: do you trust that person? What places would you hang out with that person: your house, the gym, the school? If you don't trust that person and you would not want them in your home, they probably are not a close friend. That is my general rule! Other than that, there are people that you likely know and are friendly with, but they are not really friends.

If you want to manage, keep things predictable for you and take control over things. Keep conversations short, predictable and friendly. Don't let people take advantage of you and avoid negative gossip. Remember, you will not be normal. Social conversation is an art - it is always changing and different and your brain can't figure it out in a way that NT people expect you to. I haven't even written anything about non-verbal communication! Also, your quirkiness is something some people like, at the right time ; this is your personality. Just remember there is a time and place for everything.

Some other considerations: How much do you know about your own sensory issues? Do you have suitable burn-out times? You likely need rest after a day of work, if you have roommates, an avid social life then you might just be getting too much for your senses to handle. You also need to do things you enjoy to recharge: what are you doing for your senses that you like: exercise, blankets, clothes, foods, music?

HTH


MrTeacher, this is really good and practical advice.
These are some of the things I learned to di with some social skills training in 1998-1999. I will always get tired from too much contact with people and I veer towards monologuing and factual based information and analysis and I have learned to become more intellectually and cognitively aware than I used to be. I still also err on the side of verbal utterance relaince, and so i am exceedingly naive because of my ASD.
And yet, the simple guidelines you offer have gone a long way in helping me to connect with some people and also having adequate time out - something that others do not need so frequently. It was at age 36-37 in rehab i really began to learn some of these things and whilst it takes effort to implement them and maintain them, it has helped me and it IS worth it.

Great post. Thanks. I hope a lot of the younger ASD people on the forum read it. :)



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27 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

I'm having the same troubles you are. I work full time in a busy supermarket right now, and it sucks. You could try to explain your problems to management in the hopes that they will accomodate you and make your job easier. I haven't had too much luck with that myself though. I just try to ingratiate myself to my bosses so that they don't come down on me too hard if I take an extra break or listen to my music in the back room when I should be out there interacting with customers, things that help me. Try to get a back room job as opposed to cashiering or something, it's helped me a lot to have that extra space between me and customers. It's okay to be a "different" employee, as long as you take care to always do a very good job in the aspects that aren't affected by your condition.

And like you, I used to be the quirky funny one. Then I got dx'd and realized I'm not as clever as I thought, just neurally atypical in a way that nt's sometimes find hilarious. It really took the fun out of it for a while. But I still say the "crazy" things that make them laugh so much because, really, those are the only things I know how to say that make them like me. So why not just keep going with it? It only really hurts when I'm trying to express how I hurt in a certain way and it gets an unexpected laugh.

I guess just be yourself, wait for those people at work who like you for who you are to make themselves known, and try to befriend them. Then you'll have some support at work.


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27 Jan 2010, 8:02 pm

druidsbird wrote:
I'm having the same troubles you are. I work full time in a busy supermarket right now, and it sucks. You could try to explain your problems to management in the hopes that they will accomodate you and make your job easier. I haven't had too much luck with that myself though. I just try to ingratiate myself to my bosses so that they don't come down on me too hard if I take an extra break or listen to my music in the back room when I should be out there interacting with customers, things that help me. Try to get a back room job as opposed to cashiering or something, it's helped me a lot to have that extra space between me and customers. It's okay to be a "different" employee, as long as you take care to always do a very good job in the aspects that aren't affected by your condition.

And like you, I used to be the quirky funny one. Then I got dx'd and realized I'm not as clever as I thought, just neurally atypical in a way that nt's sometimes find hilarious. It really took the fun out of it for a while. But I still say the "crazy" things that make them laugh so much because, really, those are the only things I know how to say that make them like me. So why not just keep going with it? It only really hurts when I'm trying to express how I hurt in a certain way and it gets an unexpected laugh.

I guess just be yourself, wait for those people at work who like you for who you are to make themselves known, and try to befriend them. Then you'll have some support at work.


Yup, I agree completely. 8)



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27 Jan 2010, 8:54 pm

MrTeacher wrote:
Hello.

Possibly you should re-think acting "abnormal". It sounds like an elaborate coping strategy that you have developed to communicate with others. It seems some people like this. Just remember, acting this way can be appropriate - it depends on the situation, timing and who you are with.

There are some strategies and tips that you may find useful.

The STAR method : Stop, Think, Act, Reflect. This is a good method - let other people talk, think about what is appropriate to say, act and then think about it. This will stop you from coming off as rude and impulsive.

Learn relationship building techniques: Say hi, make eye contact, smile, pat people on the back, compliment people (clothes or skills usually works), take an interest in others, find shared interests, learn about family members.

Remember to take 40% of the time and listen 60% of the time. Not all conversations need to have a point. Sometimes people just want to joke or discuss their emotions. Don't be negative or self-depricating - it's a turn off.

Remember to reciprocate emotionally and socially People often want to talk to you and they walk around dropping fishing lines that us aspies miss. Ex. If someone says "I got new tires for my car". This is your time to reciprocate. Maybe they have an interest in their car: come back with questions about their car, talk about your own experience, make a joke to lighten the mood. "I'm pissed off today" "It's not fun being pissed off, what are you mad at? I've been sad before...."

Make a list of around ten questions that will help you with small talk: have you seen the latest movie? How is your family? Did you see that sports game? How about the weather? Did you see the latest...? These questions people like and they provide you with control, safety and routine. They are helpful.

Friendship can be hard to figure out. Think: do you trust that person? What places would you hang out with that person: your house, the gym, the school? If you don't trust that person and you would not want them in your home, they probably are not a close friend. That is my general rule! Other than that, there are people that you likely know and are friendly with, but they are not really friends.

If you want to manage, keep things predictable for you and take control over things. Keep conversations short, predictable and friendly. Don't let people take advantage of you and avoid negative gossip. Remember, you will not be normal. Social conversation is an art - it is always changing and different and your brain can't figure it out in a way that NT people expect you to. I haven't even written anything about non-verbal communication! Also, your quirkiness is something some people like, at the right time ; this is your personality. Just remember there is a time and place for everything.

Some other considerations: How much do you know about your own sensory issues? Do you have suitable burn-out times? You likely need rest after a day of work, if you have roommates, an avid social life then you might just be getting too much for your senses to handle. You also need to do things you enjoy to recharge: what are you doing for your senses that you like: exercise, blankets, clothes, foods, music?

HTH

Thank you for your advice.

The thing is I can get on with people older than me much better than people my own age. There's one person at work who I can get on with reasonably well, but if she isn't there then I feel lonely and left out. I had a friend at university who I got on really well with and she was about 20 years older than me. The problem was she was the most negative person in the world, which made me depressed...

Another issue relating to this that I worry too much about how other people see me. Do they see me as someone who has something "wrong" with them? Shy? Quiet? I'm not sure. I haven't told my work that I have Asperger's, so I feel as though I have to hide my "weirdness" otherwise they will discover I have something "wrong". So when I'm interacting with someone, sometimes I'm so worried about acting "appropriately" that I end up having no idea how to act.. so I smile and move away and feel stupid afterwards. It seems silly that I'm worried about them figuring it out, since my psychologist didn't know right away, so how would a bunch of lay people know.

Perhaps part of the issue is my own perception of "disabled people"? Maybe I subconsciously view people with disabilities in a negative light due to society, and thus now view myself in a negative light...



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29 Jan 2010, 2:16 pm

I believe that you are describing anxiety. This is a hard one! You could get described pills that will help you with this. Also, you can try and avoid stressors in your life and make sure you are taking care of any sensory issues. Remember to exercise and eat healthy - it's really the number one thing for anyone. Taking control of your social situations will help you with anxiety. Learn some relaxation techniques and meditation as well -it's great stuff.

You may benefit from some self-esteem help as well. Do you have an autism organization in your area that could help you with this? This will help you assert your personality and feel better about who you are.

It also sounds like you are having some grief problems with the discovery of your diagnosis. I don't know how to help you through this, I have many of the same problems. I haven't really found much practical advice or literature on the topic either, which is unfortunate.

I usually get on with people older than me as well. This is because it is a less complex situation, the roles are more clear cut and they usually have stronger social situations.

I suggest that you confide in someone that you know and are comfortable with. You need supports in your life and one of your biggest problems is that you aspie-nish will cause you not to ask for help when you should. It's something that will help.

You are not ever going to be normal. You will develop coping strategies that will let you "pass" in most situations, so don't worry to much about it. Different strokes for different folks : there are some things your good at and some you aren't. I suggest you visit a career coach and take some surveys to figure out what your strengths are . If you deny yourself your eccentricities you are denying a large part of your biology - and being a tad bit eccentric is a good thing, in the right place, with the right people. Remember, some NT people love aspies, there are traits that we socially have that people truly appreciate : social justice, loyalty, associative thinking, knowledge, self-reflection, self awareness.

HTH



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29 Jan 2010, 9:07 pm

My solution is stop acting normal. Oh and I've had to work part time and I could barely get through it. I need more than a five minute break too.


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