Question about girls and Asperger's.

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I saw another topic here about girls with Aspergers and Googled Girls and Aspergers and while reading alot of the topics one thing I came across were some were diagnosed with a mood disorder perhaps Bipolar 2 and as many girls AS was overlooked. (My psychicatrist said That's something diagnosed in children and there's no pill for that and this is a place that gives pills) (That was his response to me mentioning AS) So I ask WHY do you think a mood disorder gets brought up? Thanks.

I would hypothesize that there are at least some similar/overlapping symptoms, AND there are pills for mood disorders. This in addition to a psychiatrist who isn't really familiar with the autism spectrum.

I would immagine that being completely absorbed in an obsession, leading one to forget to eat and or sleep could come off as a manic episode. Being burned out and needing long periods of solitude to recharge could potentially be misconstrued as a depressive episode. When coupled with the relative inability to accurately describe one's emotions, it is plausible that a psych unfamiliar with ASD could interpret them as signs of bipolar.

I think it's because mood disorders are fairly common as far as mental health is concerned and they are now being identified more so in teenagers. Many more psychiatrists are familiar with mood disorders than with ASD's, and girls with AS are more likely to be withdrawn (which can be a sign of depression too) where as boys at a school age who have "problems" seem to be more easily noticed by teachers.

Also, it's not uncommon for those with AS to get depressed so they could have both.

I was dx with Borderline PD and schizoaffective 16 years ago.........2 years ago I was dx with Bipolar II(rapid cycling).

After more than a year of being on lithium and anti-psychotics, which have been administered to me through the years, for a variety of reasons, my trusty and intelligent shrinks worked out that it made little difference. I told them I wanted to come off the drugs. It has taken 2 years to get to the point of psychometric testing for AS and ADD/ADHD, although my therapists are fairly certain it is AS.

I am 36.

Keep going to get the right answers, so the help you get is the right help. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

Take care,

Mics.

I've read that girls are more social than boys with Asperger's, and psychiatrists don't take that into consideration. I was diagnosed with ADD at first, even though it's obvious I don't have it. I get focused on one thing and ignore everything else, and attention deficit means you have difficulty focusing. AS also resembles a lot of other disorders like OCD and you can get diagnosed as just random things if it doesn't occur to them that you have autism.

Psychiatry isn't factual. It's basically a stab in the dark.
They listen to you for half and hour, if, during that time you seem depressed - they diagnose you with depression and prescribe some pills.
Next visit - still feeling low self-esteem, confusion and low emotional response - they might try some different pills.

It goes on and on and given that the doctor spends so little actual time with you, you can understand how they can make a thousand mistakes before hitting on the right thing.

Personally, I find therapists know a lot more than psychiatrists. See a therapist to find out what's really going on, and then get them to refer you to the psychiatrist if you need pills.

Psychiatrists are useless. IMHO.

Totally agree with you there. Seemed to me that the meds were prescribed more for my parents than for me, so my parents would be happy, and I felt like I was barely consulted.

So far I've approached 3 psychiatrists to try to get help. Here are the responses:

Psych 1 (verbatim, after I tried to get him to stop asking about my biological father and look at the results of the various medically relevant diagnostic tests I'd found on this site): "You stupid neurotic girl! I see this kind of thing a lot in students who've just left home (it was a Uni practice but I'd lived on my own for 4 years at this point). I've worked with autistic people before, if you were autistic you wouldn't have even been able to make this appointment, let alone do a university degree. You can speak, you live independently, I can get you counseling if you want but you don't really need it. Don't waste my time again."

Psych 2: "You have mild depression, not autism. Here's 10 sessions of cognitive behavioral therapy and a prescription for citalopram".

I took the therapy and refused the citalopram. I've seen 4 people seriously screwed up by that drug and several more harmed by other antidepressants. I wouldn't take a drug like that unless I was absolutely sure I could get off it if I needed to and that it wouldn't cause lasting harm.

Psych 3: "What do you mean the cognitive behavioral therapy didn't work? You refused to take the citalopram? You still think you might have autism? You must have some form of personality disorder. I'm going to refer you for freudian psychoanalysis."

I didn't have time or money to waste on freudian psychoanalysis. I gave up at that point (3 years ago) and am only reapproaching the question now because my mental health has deteriorated to the point where I've had to move back in with my parents because I'm incapable of looking after myself. I don't have high hopes for the future.

In answer to your question, I think it's what they're used to seeing and treating, and they're not used to seeing AS/HFA in females.

Clinical psychiatrists can't do a test or scan and definitively diagnose someone with something, so instead they have to look at the symptoms and attach a label that they can use as a guide for treating them. They are very pill happy, as mental illness does sometimes respond very well to medication. The side effects of the new drugs aren't usually as bad as the old ones, and since it can take a few attempts to match a patient to a suitable drug (or drug combo), they're not too worried if the drugs they give you are ineffective or make matters worse. They just expect you to take more pills. You can treat mood disorders with pills, but not autism, so diagnosing autism means diagnosing something they can't treat. It's also a disability, so once someone has that diagnosis, provisions must be made for them in the community if necessary. This is costly and an unnecessary hassle if the person does not in fact have autism. The first psych I spoke to said having a diagnosis of autism was also a source of social stigma that I should try to avoid at all costs.

The diagnostic criteria for AS were constructed using males alone, and the doctors I've spoken to about it have only ever seen it in men. From what I've seen and read, women with AS tend to have obsessions that aren't as far outside the norm as men, and tend to watch and imitate normal social conduct much more closely than males (possibly because girls are so cruel to females who are different- boys are content beating up weirdos, girls aren't happy until they attempt/commit suicide in my experience). Females are also less likely to exhibit violent behavior, and if they are physically reasonably attractive will still get male attention as they approach adulthood. Even if the intimate relationships they form go bad or go nowhere as the girl/ woman isn't able to maintain them or spot men who are just out to use her, they may still make her appear socially competent in they eyes of a psychiatrist in the hour that he has to assess her. Later in adulthood, quiet, socially isolated women seem to be seen as less threatening and more socially acceptable than quiet, socially isolated men, since men who are outsiders are viewed as potential sexual deviants ("she's an odd spinster" vs. "he's a weirdo/ possible paedo").

Wow! I'm sorry you had such a bad experience after 3 months of mentioning the College issue and up the dose of the pill I kept my mouth shut and everytime the College issue gets brought up oh this pill will help or this one. (I'm on 3 pills and yet have thyroid issues which could lead to depression and hormone issues odd IMO) IMO pills haven't helped much it'll be 5 years Feb. and I think of the issue daily not to mention when I went to the College the other day with my job coach I was freaking out and breathing hard and balling my eyes out!! ! Everyone I've talked too has been pill pill pill. Oh and therapy?! 1) Oh if I was the teacher I'd never want to see you again/if I was you I'd get over it (IMO YOU AREN'T ME SHEESH!! !!) 2) Oh it's them with the problem what issues do you have (Uh IMO HAVING ISSUES TO THE POINT OF GETTING THREATS TO GET KICKED OUT OF THE HOUSE PLUS COLLEGE PLUS ALMOST GETTING FIRED UH IMO IT'S ME WITH THE GOD DAMN ISSUES!! ! (Am I going to land in jail before someone says "Wow you upset a Psychologist that's a serious Psychological issue why didn't you get help? (Me Uh I TRIED FOR GOD SAKE!! !)

is to go to the Autism Society chapter in your state, or the equivalent if you are not in the US. A COMPETENT psychologist is probably a better bet for a diagnosis than a psychiatrist. Psychiatrists are more medical than a psychologist. They are more focused on pills, for the most part.
I recently found out from an amazing psychiatrist who actually is a good one that about 3% of your psychiatrists seek additional training for the Autism Spectrum. This is important because so many conditions don't present the same in a person on the Spectrum. Many folks with ASD express sadness with anger and acting out, due to the different way their brains process and express emotions. So without a good ASD trained psychiatrist, medication to treat aggression may be prescribed instead of the more appropriate anti-depressant. It's also easy to misdiagnose AD/HD when what's really going on is sensory processing disorder, which would dictated totally different medications and therapies.
And regarding getting a diagnosis in the first place, do not trust a diagnostician who doesn't use actual testing protocols such as rating scales and a structured diagnostic tool like the Autism Diagnositic Observation Schedule. Yes, tests for ASDs do exist.

That's 100% incorrect in my case. I am very aloof and solitairy.




A lot of truth to that. Psychology is even worse, though. At least psychiatry is supposed to be about the workings of the brain and how differences in brain structure and chemicals make people react differently, whereas psychology is mostly nonsense.

I'm really glad to hear you've found somebody decent. What you've suggested is what I'm doing at the moment. Someone at my local branch of the UK National Autistic Society recommended a medical practice that refer to a decent psychiatrist. I'm registering with them and hope to get an appointment. Whether this will come to anything I don't know.

Yes there are tests for them, but even with the best tests it can still be hard to diagnose accurately. Autism itself isn't a disease, it's a symptom of information processing deficits in the brain. Until there are tests that actually look directly at neural function it will be hard for doctors to tell whether a patients difficulties result from autism or another condition. Personally I have high hopes for fMRI as a diagnostic tool, but that's still quite a long way off. Each individual presents differently and autism often co-occurs with other disorders (OCD, ADD/ADHD, dyslexia etc), so it can be difficult for even a knowledgeable doctor to decide on an appropriate label. This is especially true when diagnosis is sought in adulthood as the individual will have developed coping mechanisms to mask their difficulties and may also have developed comorbid illnesses such as depression and anxiety disorders.

No offense but that's one thing I constantly hear in adulthood we've found ways to cope. UH IMO having behavior that upsets everyone and having no friends OR Social life due to my behavior issues isn't coping there are obviously issues!! So no offense but I hate the whole "found a way to cope" stuff because some of us haven't and still have issues that need to be dealt with!! !

Sometimes adult aspies have found ways to cope with some things and still have issues with others.
It would be an illusion to say that we all can cope with all our issues as adults. But maybe some do it better than others, depending on which help they have got.

Remember who you were when you were seven years old. What you were then is a good indicator of who you can be/what you are.

We are who we believe we are.