Proposed DSMV Changes May Negatively Affect Females

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whitetiger
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18 Feb 2010, 3:23 pm

The new DSM-V Criterion makes "social reciprocity" key. Autistic females mimic the behavior of others, making autism hard to diagnose to begin with. We are often overlooked and usually only lower functioning autistic females are identified. This problem could become worse with the adoption of the DSM-V new criteria.

Until 2012, this is open to public debate.

Visit www.dsmv.org, register and bring up the issue of women being overlooked.

Also, see my newest YouTube Video and pass the url along to your friends.

Thank you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fNLuLb4Pd4[/youtube]


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18 Feb 2010, 3:27 pm

It says the video is not available.


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18 Feb 2010, 3:42 pm

x_amount_of_words wrote:
It says the video is not available.


now it works


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whitetiger
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18 Feb 2010, 6:41 pm

Sorry.. it's DSM-5.org


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Michhsta
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18 Feb 2010, 6:50 pm

Thanks whitetiger......

Loved your vid........have registered to have my say......just need to work on how I am going to word it.

Cheers,

Mics


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Danielismyname
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18 Feb 2010, 8:34 pm

The lack of social reciprocity can manifest in a few ways, and the individual who defined these ways used a lot of males and females in her study to define them. They all clustered into the few various ways.



whitetiger
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18 Feb 2010, 9:42 pm

yes, when I wrote to them, I pointed out that they are not defining "social reciprocity" and that females do a great job faking it.

Thanks all who viewed and commented :)


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pandd
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18 Feb 2010, 10:15 pm

It really all depends on the expanded text and how well it describes the intended interpretation and scope of the criteria list items. I think it is a bit silly for APA to expect people can comment usefully without at least a draft version or some other indication as to the contents of the qualifying expanded text section intended to accompany the list section.



whitetiger
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18 Feb 2010, 11:08 pm

When I wrote to them, I asked for more information as to how they define "social reciprocity." I also pointed out the differences in males and females in this regard :)


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Danielismyname
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18 Feb 2010, 11:51 pm

I can tell you now what they mean by a lack of social reciprocity (they're also going to explain each criterion in-depth in the new book, as per their words), and none of which are related to mimicking other people (mimicking is no different to using rote memory to remember the "right" thing to say).

There's,

aloof (totally ignoring others)
passive (accepting approaches by others but not initiating them)
active but odd (talking in the one-sided way and not "giving and taking" of normal social interaction)

Quote:
3.2 Impairments of social interaction

3.2.1 The aloof group

This is the most common type of social impairment. Behavior may include:

* Behaving as if other people do not exist;
* Little or no eye contact made;
* No response when spoken to;
* Faces empty of expression except with extreme joy, anger or distress;
* No response to cuddling;
* If something is wanted, carers' hands may be pulled towards the object;
* May respond to rough and tumble play well, but when this stops return to aloof pattern;
* Seem to 'be in a world of their own'.

3.2.2 The passive group

Least common group, features include:

* The child accepts social approaches;
* May meet the gaze of others;
* May become involved as a passive part of a game.

3.2.3 The active but odd group

Children of this group make active approaches to others but make that contact in strange ways, including:

* Paying no attention to the other party;
* Poor eye contact although sometimes may stare too long;
* May hug or shake hands too hard.

3.2.4 The over-formal, stilted group

Seen in later life, this behavior is common in the most able person with autism. The following characteristics tend to be displayed:

* Excessively polite and formal;
* Have a good level of language;
* Try very hard to stick to the rules of social interaction without really understanding them.



whitetiger
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19 Feb 2010, 1:06 am

Thanks. My problem is still how to define a "lack of social reciprocity." When is the lack too much? I've spoken with low functioning autistics and had reciprocal conversations. They can carry them on at one point and not another. What if, when interviewing family members, they ask, "Can Sally have a reciprocal conversation?" They say yes, and the diagnosis isn't made based on that?

The higher functioning a person is, the more this is an issue. Also, when a person is responding to conversations by rote, it is not always obvious that they aren't being reciprocal.


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bdhkhsfgk
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19 Feb 2010, 1:19 am

Nice video, it proves a strong point.



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19 Feb 2010, 4:48 am

whitetiger wrote:
The new DSM-V Criterion makes "social reciprocity" key. Autistic females mimic the behavior of others, making autism hard to diagnose to begin with. We are often overlooked and usually only lower functioning autistic females are identified.


According to Attwood very intelligent males also use similar coping strategies as females use to disguise their problems.
Having discovered AS only late in life I have certainly identified that I used many of the coping strategies that females used so tend to agree with Prof. Attwood on that.

I think the key factor is the case examples they say are going to be added which will determine if the particular criteria will work. This is particularly a concern for me as my daughter is now 9 and I feel she is mimicking to get by.



Callista
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19 Feb 2010, 5:27 am

This particular female doesn't mimic the behavior of others. And I've met males who do.

Do you have any evidence to back up the idea that autistic females do more mimicking than males do?


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whitetiger
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19 Feb 2010, 5:33 am

Yes. Tony Attwood's book, Asperger's and Girls, which is one of the few books on the subject, has a couple of articles in it by two different researchers who both state that girls tend to mimic more.


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Callista
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19 Feb 2010, 5:48 am

Do you own it? If so, can you post the citations? I can probably get them via Medline and pick out interesting bits to discuss.


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