Kid with aspergers (supposedly) gets life in prison

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Anyone here about the teenager John Oldgren that stabbed his classmate to death in Massachusetts a few years ago? He was supposed to have Aspergers, but even the doctors that testified said that people with Aspergers are gentle and non-violent. He tried to use it as an excuse along with psychosis, and the jury didn't buy it and sentenced him to life in prison without parole.

More importantly, this is a local story for me, and it frustrates me that in passing, people hear about the story or read the story and just hear "Teen with Aspergers kills classmate" and they think Aspergers equals psychosis.

Then they read about Jenny McCarthy or see the movie Rain Man and think people with Aspergers are borderline ret*d or crazy.

Does this bother anyone else?

Man, they will eat him alive in prison. I hope he has enough common sense to tell the people at the prison's reception center the he has Aspergers and can not be in general population.

If he stabbed someone in self defense to keep from getting hurt then I'd have to say good for him for stopping a bully or criminal. If it was him just walking up and stabbing someone over something minor like name calling then society would be better off with him locked up. I do not know all the facts in this case but the kid probably did not need to stab the victim. He is dangerous and needs to be away from everybody else. The media should also play up the fact most aspies are non-violent and usually the victim in most attacks.

Last edited by Todesking on 01 May 2010, 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I wouldn't count on it, considering he didn't have enough common sense not to bring a knife to school and stab somebody to death. He gets absolutely no sympathy from me.

I've noticed the news media likes to play the Aspergers card a lot, weather it is relevant to the story or not. Like this story: today,msnbc,msn,com/id/36775855

Girl, 11 lost in the woods for several days...

They make mention that she has Asperger's syndrome, okay, totally unessary, and not related to the story at all. Makes me wonder about my own future if I do something crazy and or stupid. I can see it now...

Today an Eastside man BASE jumped off the city's tallest building...blah blah...blah, btw he has Aspergers's syndrome.

I can't imagine most Aspies/NLD-ers i've encountered in prison. High school is bad enough and many of the human wolves in prisons care nothing about anyone's neuropsychological disorders. It is simply yet another weakness in their eyes and one they will ruthlessly and sadistically exploit.

On the other hand...while I certainly feel sorry for this kid as he was most likely provoked (to paraphrase Maya Angelou...let's just say I know why the caged wasp stings)
I do personally know a few Aspies who are anything but saints. Since it's a small world, let's just say I know one who is about as predatory, cunning and sociopathic as humans come. And there is little doubt this person is an Aspie either.

Thus....to claim that Aspies/NLD-ers are warm and fuzzy little saints is actually another way, albeit an unintentional and well-meaning one, of dehumanizing us. Women have dealt with the same subtle and well-intentioned indignity for years and most sophiscated people in our society no longer engage in it where women are concerned. If only these same sophisticates would understand that NO group deserves either sanctification or demonization.

What was the reason for stabbing the individual?

I know of a case here in Oz where a teenager with AS stabbed and almost killed a bully, and the AS was a valid reason for why he wasn't found guilty of attempted murder. The judge took into account the defendant's communication difficulties (see: unable to speak of the bullying), in addition to no one doing anything about it, as they all saw it. The judge found that the defendant didn't have criminal intent (he was acting in defense, even if it wasn't justified to the police at the time), even if he did have the guilty mind; you need both of these to be found criminally liable.

I'm like Rain Man. I'm mildly ret*d with WAIS-IV, but highly intelligent with Raven's. I have AS/HFA/LFA depending. There's nothing wrong with this. So, f**k you and anyone who thinks they're better than me because they were born with a different brain than mine.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162- ... 04083.html

"The teen, described as a "geeky, uncoordinated, awkward 16-year-old," allegedly brought a carving knife to school, picked a victim at random in a boys' bathroom, then stabbed him eight times."

Even if he was provoked, that doesn't justify a premeditated murder.

I had a lot of violent outbursts when I was in high school all of them were set off by some pin head who thought he could get one over on me because I was in special education. Half the time I was bigger than my bully which made me even madder since he should have been more weary of me because of my size. I took that as an even greater disrespect. I choked the crap out of them or wrestled them to the ground so I could kick them when they were down. I never started a fight in my life or ever felt the need to stabb anyone though,

People know I'm not violent.
And it doesn't bother me to be associated with people like Rain Man; I've seen that movie, and the character seems like a decent person.

I was agressive even as an infant. I didn't want anyone to touch or be around me and I would resort to violence to make them stop. My mum says it was as if I had a perpetual chip on my shoulder and would lash out at anyone. If anyone dissed my special intrests or something of that nature, they had it coming. I was usualy bullied and I would retaliate. I remember picking fights simply because I loved the thrill of fighting. As an adult, it's hard to be around other people because I constantly have to fight the urge to beat the living daylights out of everybody who looks at me. If they purposely look me in the eye, I want to beat the s**t out of them because I automaticaly interpret it as a challange or threat. As a child I never made eye contact unless I was trying to stand up for myself or start a fight. I wonder if this is part of the reason I was so agressive as a child because I thought others were trying to challange me if they made eye contact.

I don't think being violent is beyond the capabilities of someone with AS, but I don't think it is typical of those with AS either. I was never violent or aggressive in any way.

I saw the interview with the girl who got lost in the swamp, and I know this is horrible armchair psychiatry, but I couldn't help but to question if she really had AS, or a PDD-NOS.

It does upset me how the newscaster used a patronizing tone (did anyone else notice this?)

I may have trouble picking up on certain non-verbal cues and such, but can certainly tell a patronizing tone.

I had a friend who had HFA and it was quite apparent by his speech. He would tend to draw words out and over pronounce them. One day, it so happened that a woman spoke to him in a tone he felt inappropriate and demeaning, and the next thing out of his mouth was "Listen sweetheart..." and I can't repeat the rest on here! But she sure got a dose of reality!

No it doesn't and while even a provoked person guilty of premeditated murder should be removed from society, I would hope they don't place him somewhere where he'll be a sheep among wolves.

Isolation and the deterrence theory are one thing...."cruel and unusual punishments" are another.

Regardless of whether this kid is an Aspie or not....he is also SIXTEEN.

When someone his age has "consensual" (if it can be defined as such at that age and if a sixteen year-old human being knows right from wrong and can control their actions insofar as a murder is concerned, I don't see why they can't refrain from having sex with adults) sex with an adult we seem to view them as helpless victims. When they commit some heinous crime everyone wants to TRY THEM AS AN ADULT and burn them at the stake.

While I may receive more flak for this post than our B-17's received from the mighty German 88's... I think it's high time for a more sober and rational approach. A middle ground, so to speak. Criminal justice in this country, like everything else, is largely emotionally-driven and based on the implicit belief in free will.

We can STILL have all the deterrence and containment in the world without subjecting people to the hideous circumstances which exist in our prisons. I know of no credible studies that suggest cruelty acts as a deterrence. If anything....I think it serves to make humans even more vicious than they already were. I'd say someone like Charles Manson is a good case in point.


Besides....the science of genetics, epigenetics, psychology, neurology, etc.....has come a bit too far for us to ASSUME human beings have any more "free will" than grizzly bears do.

No one deserves to go to prison, but sometimes it's just necessary, until we find a humane alternative.

I don't think that he will make it one week, in prison.

Yes it does. I hate aspies who commit crimes and try and play the AS card and use it as a defense. If my husband were to piss me off and I happened to have a knife in my hand and he said the words "calm down" and I stab him and he died from bleeding to death. Should I use my AS as a defense for that because of that natural reaction to the words? (this part is directed at danielismyname)

Desperation:



Vs annoyance:


There's just a slight difference between the two situations, IMHO.