Being nice guy, something to do about it.

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Aspie_Chav
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22 Apr 2006, 4:17 am

I got it again accused of being a nice guy. I don’t know if is the same with other aspie, but it come down to being too tolerant and not enough hate. Upping my hate and lowing my tolerance is destined for failure because it is not who I am.

But I do have intolerances for thing that are not scientific and logical and dogmatic. Those things get me fired and I can seem a bit aggressive. I aspies need to find the things that get them fired up and work on them a little. The second thing I have is intolerance for other people’s intolerance. I believe that social unskilfulness should not be faced with hostility but a helping and some advice like what a friend would do if you were being unskilful. So if someone starts givin it all of that and starts with their selective morality then I will have to correct them about it.



IkariShinji
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22 Apr 2006, 6:27 am

I'm the opposite, I have a huge overabundance of criticism and hate... Part of my journey has been trying to be partially tolerant of people and viewpoints that are "wrong", for a wide range of values of "wrong".



Aspie_Chav
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22 Apr 2006, 8:19 am

Try meditation Metta Bhavna (loving kindness) it should help get rid of some rage. Your journey to get rid of rage is a lot easier then the opposite way round and I am sure that you will have the support of those around you to.



Hu3
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22 Apr 2006, 11:57 am

Some things you care about, some things you don't. The "Nice-Guy" disorder involves a certain kind of mentality other than just not being argumentitive so the accusers probably don't know what they're talking about.



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Apr 2006, 1:20 pm

Hu3 wrote:
Some things you care about, some things you don't. The "Nice-Guy" disorder involves a certain kind of mentality other than just not being argumentitive so the accusers probably don't know what they're talking about.


Yeah, I've seen some real soft NT guys who seem quiet, look like a good gust of wind could blow them over, and they do fine with the women - I just think that women have a very set scope on how they're willing to accept guys who fit those specs. I'm really starting to wonder if the 'nice guy' disorder as you very appropriately put it might be the guys who are just too rational/analytical - seems like women really seem to be turned off more by a guy who won't float out in their own emotional bubble of a world with them. Its like they want someone who not only gives reciprocity, they want someone who lives and breathes it (ie. is the dreamy character they want to imagine they're looking at when they first start flirting with you). The killer for me has always been I get way too much attention from the types who want to clap their reality of who I am down over me, have me just go along with it and be that person, anything else seems like it completely jams their gears. In other words if you aren't an almost unrealistic little 'boy doll' and you look like a grown up version of Christopher Robin from Winny the Pooh you're going to have a real hard time getting women to accept you for who you are in the sense that the ones who like how you look will only want you if you are who you look like and the girls who might really like your personality look at your exterior and think "pfff, I want a real man...", a first impression severe enough that even them seeing your personality can't fully reverse the damage of quite often.


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emp
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22 Apr 2006, 1:38 pm

The whole "nice guy" business is well explained here:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


Quote:
All too often we hear self-professed "Nice Guys" complaining about why they can't get a date, and whining that women just want to date jerks, etc. etc. The truth of the matter is that there are genuinely caring, compassionate, decent, fun guys out there who have NO TROUBLE meeting people, getting dates, and having relationships.

Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist on laying blame and asserting that women don't want them because they are too "Nice". These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem. Whether it is targetting women who are troubled to begin with, or acting in a manipulative, patronizing or obsequious fashion, these guys sabotage themselves and blame others for their misfortunes.



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Apr 2006, 2:15 pm

emp wrote:
The whole "nice guy" business is well explained here:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/ ... s/ng.shtml


Quote:
All too often we hear self-professed "Nice Guys" complaining about why they can't get a date, and whining that women just want to date jerks, etc. etc. The truth of the matter is that there are genuinely caring, compassionate, decent, fun guys out there who have NO TROUBLE meeting people, getting dates, and having relationships.

Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist on laying blame and asserting that women don't want them because they are too "Nice". These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem. Whether it is targetting women who are troubled to begin with, or acting in a manipulative, patronizing or obsequious fashion, these guys sabotage themselves and blame others for their misfortunes.


emp, that's actually a cheap write-off. I've read that article before and it explains maybe 1 out of 5 but they try to broadbrush it and make it sound like it's the end all answer. Heartless-bitches.com IMO = spin and rationalization, lots of it. It's not that simple by a longshot.


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emp
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22 Apr 2006, 2:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
emp, that's actually a cheap write-off. I've read that article before and it explains maybe 1 out of 5 but they try to broadbrush it and make it sound like it's the end all answer. Heartless-bitches.com IMO = spin and rationalization, lots of it. It's not that simple by a longshot.


Well sure, it is not a university dissertation on the "nice guy" problem, but it is still a good introduction and gives you a good general overview and understanding. You are probably right if you are saying that it does not cover every detail.

Feel free to suggest a better source of information about the problem. Unless you have a better source, people can read the HBI info.



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Apr 2006, 3:05 pm

What I'm saying is I think the entire basis of the problem is different in most cases. Via the human condition is it technically the guy's fault for not having the genetics to have the natural inclinations or capacities to just come off in a maintainably attractive way or the fault of women because they can't see past it? I don't think it's either, people prove time and time again that they can't be much more than what they are (otherwise with a good push they probably would have already) and attraction in and of itself is a real fleeting thing that doesn't even work the way you want it to for yourself most of the time - easy to see how this could be caused so much by the fine subliminal almost autonomic details of a persons nonverbals and such. Even if it is true, darkest case scenareo, that the dating world is our own eugenics program based on evolutionary psychology - we'd blame that on the fact that we're gene-based rather than men or women per se.

What disturbs me about hearless b***h is that IMO they take 20% and try to blow it up to sound like 80%, that's helping people who don't want to think about it to have an illusion to hold on to, a quick fix answer, one that doesn't require much analysis to understand, and people like to grab onto stuff like that because it saves them the brainwracking of trying to figure out the bottom line truth of things (that and it tells certain groups of people what they'd love to hear - its a burden off their shoulders). That's last part is what really gets me and while I can't argue against people reading it I'd highly advise them to take it with a huge grain of salt. When something is not the majority truth and it's passed off as such what its doing is propagating misunderstanging. Reason why I care about that last part, the more illusions or quick-fix answers people hold onto about life the longer the human race in general will be out in the darkness and not know themselves for isht. The less we know about ourselves the more stupid things we keep doing over and over. Yeah, it's a real small example and seems like nothing in the aggregate but still its just one more thing that keeps people at war with eachother when its not even necessary.


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IkariShinji
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22 Apr 2006, 3:24 pm

Quote:
These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem.


Well, not being able to see it, much less fix it, is, I wager, common around here... (Been there. Still there, really...)



gsilver
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22 Apr 2006, 4:56 pm

I have been told by one of my professors "You're to nice. You should get angry more often"


Though that was more in reference to how quiet I am in class. It was the day after I had missed class, and he provided an anecdote of how they knew "someone" was missing, but couldn't figure out whom.



emp
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22 Apr 2006, 5:15 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What I'm saying is I think the entire basis of the problem is different in most cases.

I disagree. I think that the problem in most cases is generally what HBI has described.



Aspie_Chav
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23 Apr 2006, 3:40 am

Quote:
These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem.


I see lots, I see the truth much more then the average NT does no questions. But I do have Aspergers Syndrome that doesn’t help much.

1. Many nice guys could come over as having less confidence, which is one factor. The other is bad guys will take advantage of any situation to get ahead.

2. I have very good computer skills; if I wanted to I could use this to hack into home computer users and get credit card details and other details. Simply because most home users security is simply very bad. I know that anti viruses would be pathetic at stopping me because I would write viruses for my own use. Simply put if I was a bad boy I would have loads of money coming out of my ears. And as we all know woman are attracted to power and money. Why woman are attracted to power and money is much easier to understand.



Anubis612
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23 Apr 2006, 10:46 am

The problem most likely is confidence for most nice guys. I find that many, including myself lack confidence in approaching girls and are rather afraid of negative consequences. I tend to be the type of guy who likes to be approached first. Regarding being nice, many people say that I need to retaliate against insults more. I simply tell them that I became used to them a long time ago. I guess that I simply do not like conflict either.



Stallion_72
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23 Apr 2006, 11:03 am

I'd rather be a "nice guy" than an as*hole to be honest.



emp
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23 Apr 2006, 11:44 am

Stallion_72 wrote:
I'd rather be a "nice guy" than an a****** to be honest.

And that is a perfectly sensible thing to say, but the problem is that a lot of the guys who insist that they are "nice guys" are in reality a******'s to use your terminology. The sad fact is that there are guys who have behavior which makes them unpleasant or a jerk yet they insist that they are "nice guys".

Regarding Anubis612's comment about confidence, I agree, confidence definitely helps. This comes with practise/experience, so keep trying.



Last edited by emp on 23 Apr 2006, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.