Shrink says I connect and communicate with people ...

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.... the only problem I have is how I think people perceive me. She comes to this conclusion because I can talk to her articulately about my condition and she feels I am connecting with her. The fact that I can't do the same with peers she thinks is because of my (false) negative impression of the way peers are perceiving me. I think she is right, she's formed this opinion after me attending appointments with the mental health team for over 2 years.

I don't think this reason for isloation is a very Aspie thing? Am I right? Would be interested to know because I'm not dxd and interested in anyones opinon.

Last edited by fleeced on 22 Jul 2010, 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Being able to communicate with others is a skill, not an emotion.

I do well with communicating with others, but in most situations, there are social rules that make the other party treat me respectfully. Now, would I make an intimate connection with these other people, I don't know. I certainly know the odds are better if I have something in common I can connect with them over, but it won't happen with most people.

People who are open minded and tolerant can make easier connections with someone who has AS than the average person might. Likewise, just because they can connect with you doesn't mean you'll feel a connection to them or anyone else.

Of course, the treatment for AS is therapy to help you improve areas in your life where AS affects you negatively. So, it is possible to learn to communicate better and to better connect with others. You won't be like an NT, but you will have more effective and rewarding interactions than if you never learned to improve these areas of your life.

fleeced wrote:

So because you're conveying facts about yourself to her...you're making a connection? Umm...k...I'm stumped. I don't GET it.

If I go to the doctor and describe symptoms, am I forming a BOND with him? Or do I just want him to diagnose what's wrong and recommend a treatment? HE just wants to be PAID for SERVICES RENDERED. I just want to get outta' there.

I'd ask for clarification...but that's just me. Doesn't mean you should - especally if you trust this person.

Well in that case, I should be an NT. I do connect with certain people and OH MY GOD, I am communicating with you all! How can this be?

Shrink = rules are set in stone.
You go there to talk about your problems.
She is paid to listen to them, and try to find out ways to fix them.

With a shrink, at least a professional one, you don't have to waste a single thought on things like her making the proposal to meet for a cup of coffee, or maybe her expecting you to make it. You don't have to waste your capacities on being prepared for eventualities, and that gives you room to concentrate on the task at hand, which is communication with the shrink or medical team.

Or maybe that's just me. I don't know.

Having had time to think about it, I don't trust her and I need to learn to question what doesn't feel right. What she said just didn't seem to fit.

My psychologist has told me several times that i'm "articulate," and she's the one who diagnosed me... We might not be good at speaking socially or knowing what to say and what people mean by things, but i think that Aspies generally speak well.. Especially in a comfortable situation with somewhat clear expectations.
I don't know about the "connect" thing. I always feel sort of cut-off from other people, even if i'm talking to them and getting along with them well. I don't know how the other party feels about me though, if they feel like i'm connecting with them or not.

this is so similar, the way you've described it, to my first encounter with therapist in my first attempt to do therapy in adulthood.

i was simply told that the only problem is the worry of how others are perceiving us and how careful we are being to influence that perception. it seems like a very NT piece of advice. it simply does not fit for someone on the spectrum. the mechanics of engaging socially are where we need help, not confidence or any of this rubbish that would help a self-conscious NT become more socially flexible.

the problem, as Tony Attwood has put it, is one of intuition. On the spectrum we have not developed social intuitions that are required to "connect" with others. I am trying to figure out how I can clue this therapist in to this idea, as it resonates very strongly with me.

thus far my best idea has been to print up talking points, give them a copy, then attempt the conversation. i'm going to try at session 2.

I had many time-wasting appointments with shrinks between 2000 and 2004, often repeating the same details from one visit to the next, getting nowhere. When I brought up social phobia (which should have been a clue to possible AS), the shrink didn't think I had it and that I just had a negative view of myself. Lets compare some names by PM.

The one thing that confuses me, from both of the above quotes compared, is that in the former (before people's input), you seemed to agree with her thoughts. The latter(after people's opinions), on the otherhand, have seem to have swayed your view to the other side - claiming that you don't trust her thoughts and that they don't seem to fit.

I know, myself, that (to an extent) the psychologist's views of you are very similar to my own (and other people's) thoughts of myself, and I am still considered an Aspie due to sharing many Aspie traits, despite various people's (and my own) thoughts of the same thing about me - so, it is perfectly plausible for someone to be both Aspie and diagnosed as that. On the otherhand, I must stress - go with what you think is right. Don't just follow what the psychologist says, but also don't trust what these guys say much either - as, sometimes, even our fellow Aspies cannot relate to our individual feelings and thoughts. An example being, ofcourse, if I were to compare myself to other Aspies at my school. Whereas I follow rules to the exact letter no matter what and am a general honourable person, the other Aspies (although rule-obsessed) would try their hardest to bend the rules into their favour and/or pin the blame on others. My honour-bound and law-abiding personality is my own personal feelings, whereas their lack of honour and bending (but in no ways breaking) of the rules is unique to them.

In other words, with cases like this, trust either yourself or the professional. You need to keep in mind, only you know how you are feeling, and even if you think the professional has got it wrong (which, to begin with, you thought it was correct) - that doesn't mean she is untrustworthy. Rather, she's trustworthy the very moment she is willing to put the effort in to try to use her knowledge to discover what is the cause of your differences. If she came up with this well informed guess over 2 years, which you originally considered right, then it shows that she is at least on the right track.

What Etular said.

Also, there is a difference between making up your own mind when you hear the opinion of somebody else, and mistrusting the other person's opinion from the start.

I know I kept my own reply very short and it looked like it was in favour of - yes, swaying you - though that wasn't my intention. (I was trying to say that people act differently in different situations, and that it often is a lot easier to play one's role in a situation in which one actually has a clear-cut role.)

Ask her. Ask her what she means with that she feels she can connect with you. Ask her whether she expects you to feel something similar. Ask her whether you are supposed to know what it actually means to her (because I somehow am under the impression that you feel you should understand it yet do so only vaguely), ask her how you can tell that other people feel they can connect to you/communicate with you. Ask her about daily life social situations. If you act differently in different situations, in situations not with her, not with the staff - does she know? Does she know the details?
After all, if she is saying that you have a false impression about how your peers view you, she might provide a lead on how they actually perceive you (which never hurts to know) and you can find out together if her idea was actually correct, if, how to cope, and if not what else might be the main factor.

It sounds to me like the shrink is saying since you trust her you are connecting but because of low self esteem, you aren't connecting well with peers? That could be related to Asperger;s, if you have had a lot of negative social experiences or have been picked on, you are "conditioned" into the false belief that people are not going to have a positive reaction toward you, you aren't going to gain a good emotional experience by connecting with them, so you don't bother trying. You have given up on them. The shrink is trained to reach people, so she had an easier time building a connection with you. Most people don't have this type of training, so you have to work with them to build this connection. The shrink probably gave 75% while you gave 25%. Most people want you to give 60% while they give 40, at least at first. That's why it can be hard forming new friendships. Aspies are capable of giving less than 60%, so it makes connecting more difficult.

Since the first post I remembered that she had previously written a report on me which I looked at and thought it was like reading a report about someone else -she didn't seem to get me. I suppose that's where the reversal of trust came in. I've seen a number of different people over the 2 years it's the way the system works - I don't get to see someone consistently. Thanks for the comments, really helpful.