I'm tired of the disgruntled so-called men

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I have read some posts about some guys so desprete (sp) to get with someone and they think that girls have it easy cuz all they have to do is look pretty and shy. Ya...that usually draws the carney creeps. I can see that a lack of companionship usually creates a terrible void that eats someone raw, but you can fill that void with other things like art, music, adventure. But to say autistic women dont suffer as much because of a double standard....is bull. I have been in therapy for sexual abuses going back to when I was a kid to a young adult until I decided to give up dating all together. My therapist says that most of my sexual experiences were non-consentual. To say that we dont suffer in the light of unwanted sexual advances is like saying that we somehow "ask for it" because we are shy and pretty. I would rather suffer from avoidance than ppl thinking they can have their way with me.

I was a shy aspie and I missed out on relationships with girls that liked me as i was scared of being intimate, the thought of having to be touched, taking my clothes off etc was too much for me. Also, I was too shy to open conversations with women, and those women who approached me, i would flee from having sex with as i couldn't handle it - even though I liked them and I beat myelf up about these failures lots. It especially makes me feel bad when I talk to female friends who tell me how men come on to them, be forceful in asking them for sex, chat them up, and I just think how crap was I,,I didn't realise how utterly crap i was compared to normal guys as a teen. I have improved a lot now though and became more confident and brave which enabled me to have relationships.

However, I always blamed myself, I was not bitter toward women for this. I knew too well that many women liked me and would have had sex with me had i not flee from it. I just used to freeze up. It was my fault. I dont think I am a true aspie as when i get confidence and get over the fear people find me nice to talk to and my social skills are much better. I think i might be just someone pushed down by a crap shy childhood.

However in the early old days of WP I did used to complain a lot about some of the more able members and how easy they seemed to find it. there seemed to be a few people on the site then who were very social and spent a lot of time boasting about their full social lives and how many partners they had. Even when they complained about their crap relationships or nasty partners it seemed like everyone took it for granted that these people were more mature and serious than everyody else on the site and all became mods and lorded it over everyone and put down the immature men.

I found it unfair as I don't think AS men choose to be immature and annoying, I think their immaturity is thrust on them against their will by not being social enough to get friends and relationships. And I think if we are being fair, there are some immature aspie females out there too and it is not their fault either. Those clever mods had lots of relationships and a full social life, even if the relationships were bad due to their AS problems, they got to grow and become mature and wise through them. The crap aspies never have a chance to grow and become more mature by meeting more people and having friendships and relationships. There should be more sympathy either way from both groups, but that takes maturity and the ability to see life and different problems from someone else' point of view, which unfortunatly are both hard for aspies.

I myself am more mature than when I used to complain about that and have got to know aspies who have had relationships but are still a bit immature and crap, aspies who are celibate but are mature and wise and taken seriously by people, aspies including females who are shy like me and had the same problems as me. However for reasons above i dont think either side should put down or be jealous of the other. I had a relationship a few years ago when i was really depressed and worried about life and it did not help cure me as I thought it might. If anything it made it worse to handle a relationship when i was in a state of feeling bad about life.

Seems like a pretty sound opinion to me, though I haven't personally heard any men whinging recently.

Me, I have no idea whether the average woman has it easier than me or not. I did once whinge but was told that as a male it was at least socially acceptable for me to approach women for dates and stuff, whereas all women can do is just try to look pretty and hope somebody suitable comes along and does the honours.

I don't really envy women, but I do wish we could take feminism to its logicial conclusion and sweep away all these persistent relics of female passivity and dependency. It's confusing to have to fit in with a world that can't quite make up its mind whether it wants women to be equal with men or not. It would be good if anybody could take the lead.

But I have to be realistic and understand that it's not going to happen, except with the occasional rare feminist, one who has really made some inroads into equalising power. Most of them are nowhere near that, and seem to think that power is all about wobbling their cleavage in the hope of being chosen. I think it's silly, but that's the way the world wants it. At least if I fancy somebody, it's socially acceptable for me to declare my interest and to find out quickly whether or not the lady is interested. All I have to do is to pick up a phone and ask for a date or whatever. Sure, it's a scary thing to have to do, but the worst that can happen is that I'll be told to get lost. I wouldn't swap.

want to? > http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt132489.html

(not directed at you, TD) this thread should serve to show that when people are seething and bitter about the opposite sex, it serves to alienate them further, as this post is likely a response mainly to that one.

also, who cares whether it's socially acceptable to ask men out, or such? it only needs to be acceptable to the man you're asking out (and isn't always; some men feel emasculated by women showing this kind of assertiveness). so i just see that as an issue of compatibility between the two parties in re their attitudes about gender expectations. those who feel appropriate vs. inappropriate gender behavior is culturally based and merely part of the superficial social matrix, something to be dispensed with, are best off with each other. i would think many aspies (since they may have come of age unaware of or baffled by societal expectations to begin with) would be flexible in this regard.

OK I believe it now. I see the reason for their annoyance - it can feel like I'm missing out on something when there's a lady I'm interested in and there are competing guys hanging around her like flies round a honey pot, buying her drinks etc., and sometimes I think it would be nice if there were a constant swarm of women doing that for me, but there's a bigger picture here.

Well done......you've challenged the assumption that society is a completely homogenous thing....it's not society you're looking for, it's one person, who will always be to some extent at loggerheads with the standard set of social rules. Autistic people would indeed be more likely to reject such mainstream values, I would think. Maybe we could have special arm bands? - "Ask me out - it's OK!"

Mind you, it's uncanny how ALL the women I've had relationships with have required me to take the lead in some way - not one has ever just told me straight that they wanted to be my girlfriend. And I haven't looked for partners in the usual mainstream haunts, in fact I've specialised in unusual women and kept away from the ordinary ones. Some of them were extremely feisty and assertive people, but they still reverted to secrecy and passivity when it came to actually starting the relationship........never met one yet who was prepared to take all the risk out of it for me.

I never thought of it that way. I think I asked a guy out once or twice...but most of the time, I showed my interest by flirting and see where that lead me. I also had a 3 year relationship with a guy that never asked me out or I asked him out. He just said, I will pick you up at 6:30. And I was like....ooookay...whynot.
just so you know how that went...it went great until 6 months later, I found out that he was nuts and spent the rest of the 2 1/2 years trying to leave him. he kept threatening to kill himself if I left...until one day, I got enough of his insanity and left him whether he offed himself or not. Btw...he did not kill himself, my brother saw him a few months ago. and it has been 10 years since we dated.

But if some of you guys dont want to ask her out...just do what my ex boyfriend did. Although that will take considerable nerve to set a time to pick her up without asking her out first.

Feminism isn't about women taking control, but rather women having choices they didn't have before.

Call me antiquated and backwards because I'm a stay at home mother in a dom/sub relationship, and you'll just make yourself look ignorant of the feminist movement.

well you can do what my ex boyfriend did: He did not bother to ask me out. He just said I will pick you up at 5:30...I dated him for 3 years...I think, maybe longer than that. But I spent most of the time trying to break up with him cuz he was nuts and threatened to kill himself if I left. Finally I did, whether or not her offed himself. 10 years later, he is still alive and has some other honey to drive crazy.

but my point is...if you dont want to pop the question...just tell her you will pick her up at such and such time.
It might work...you might also get decked, so dont blame me if you do.

but ya I agree, I think us women should share some of the responsibility in asking the other out. Although from my experience, guys, at least n/t ones, are put off by woman doing the asking out because of traditional gender roles still run deep even on a subconscious level and some guys are threatened by a chic that is "trying to wear the pants".

Although, it varies from person to person, but living in the deep south for 23 years, there has not been much of a women's lib movement here. Women here have to get their mate's permission to cut their own hair!!

I wouldn't advise that, jojobean. Moves like that usually set the tone for a relationship. The tone... "I am a control freak and will treat you like a child".

Totally agree. Treat the person as a fellow intelligent adult, not a child who has no power.

Interesting....if I did that, I'd see it as asking her out......as soon as I said "I'll pick you up at...," then I'd know I was offering to go out with her, with the risk of her saying no. Indeed I use both "methods" with a female friend of mine sometimes. We'll be talking on the phone or by text, and she'll say that she's thinking of going to some place or other, then I'll say "OK, I'll come with you if you like." Other times I've just said "hey, do you want to come to xyz tomorrow?" I don't really draw any distinction between the two approaches, though maybe it's a special case because I've known her for a couple of years and (unless I'm feeling really paranoid) I feel that she enjoys my company as much as I enjoy hers. And I've no intentions of becoming her boyfriend because I'm not ready for a relationship and she has certain characteristics that I think would give me a rough time if I were to get that close to her. Maybe it's different when you know you're not going for the grand slam?

Wow, that sounds ideal!
Seriously, needing permission for a haircut is going a bit far, but inasfar as a couple are trying to share a life together, changes of appearance could be something that they might reasonably expect to be discussed. I'd feel rather annoyed if a mate of mine went and picked a hairstyle that I personally found unattractive, if we were particularly close. Of course it shouldn't be a one-way thing. I'm not particularly uncomfortable with something like refraining from having an ear pierced if my partner feels strongly that I'd look silly in her eyes. It's more important to remain sexually attractive to your mate than to others, if you're into that level of commitment. But naturally it's a question of degree. You can live in each others pockets so much that you stifle each other, which is probably just as bad as expecting the freedom of an individual within a marriage.

I'm Autistic which simply put makes me f***ed up

I don't think anyone else with AS is any LESS f***ed up, or has it any 'easier' just because of their gender, race, religion, nationality, color or any other kind of petty categorization.

I suspect that some of the threads on WP started by half-men, who b***h about how 'easy' they 'think' AS is for women are the work of trolls and at worst, people who are MUCH more f***ed up than most of us (and who need no help in being so)

i think women should have absolute veto power over beard growth, but although i understand the nature of this thought i'd say it's otherwise dodgy territory. fine line between wanting your partner to look / act / feel / be their best, i.e. be pleasant and attractive to be around (for their benefit as well as your own) and implying ownership. i think i would feel annoyed too, come to think of it, but i also think i'd be wrong for it. tough call, and a subject i've considered and found disagreement within myself about. i wouldn't want a partner to look his best, precisely. i would want him to look most like himself, what i'd have agreed to in the first place.



sexy move? or controlling? i think i'd have not been home at 5:30.

i sometimes see / hear men giving each other advice about women and it's generally terrible. "act like you're not interested" or something. don't act like anything - be yourself. (women's advice to other women re men is equally terrible, can usually be boiled down to "don't rock the boat.")

i wonder if where some of this male / female hostility (re ease of dating, ease of life on the spectrum in general) comes from is the basic difficulty of feeling like being oneself is good enough - obviously it's not been, for some of us. it's lost us jobs, it's caused us to be bullied, it's made lots of things difficult. maybe blaming one's gender takes a little of the pressure off of autism for a minute.

up all night, too tired to make any more sense than that. maybe someone knows what i mean.

I guess the adverse effects of bearded men on their partners is so easy to imagine that such a veto would probably be carried (though one or two religions might be vexed to hear it). Of course partners in the real world do annoy each other. It's very difficult to know whether and where to draw lines.....some things are just irritating, others seem to draw blood, others still are in the middle somewhere. And I think that with mates there are strong primordial motivations that don't know anything much about fair play.


No it was 6:30........


Made sense here. If the experience is that being themselves has got them rejected and spat upon, and they know that the world isn't going to change for them, then "being yourself" kind of loses its glamour. I think they just mean don't try to distort yourself too much during the opening stages. I think the rejected usually end up hating their rejectors, especially if it's been insensitively done a few times. It might well not be their fault, but they've denied that person the right to procreation (which is in a sense survival), so sure that person is likely to be bitter. It can be even worse if they've attained a relationship only to find their insecurities and anger flare up and drive the partner away. But they won't grow until they own their part in their plight instead of blaming what they can't change.

My experience with relationships and with men/women relations in general has been very different from what has been described in this thread. I have terrible trouble with friendships, especially casual friendships, and I have been mob-bullied by groups, but not with romantic relationships nor with random men hitting on me or trying to take advantage.

I didn't have a boyfriend in junior high or high school because I wasn't pretty and was a little too shy/weird. In college I didn't have anyone for the first year, and no one hit on me, but my second year a met another very nerdy guy and we were together for 14 years. (We broke up in part because I was too weird, but it was mostly my depression that he couldn't deal with anymore.)

When we split up I knew a lot of people for the next three years but no one who tried to ask me out. I think it was much more my strangeness and my inability to flirt or make a connection with anyone than my looks, which are not awful or anything. (I once picked up a guy in a bar without even really trying, but that was the only time I attempted to do something like that.) Then I met my current bf and we have been together for 10 years.

I think that my AS has actually helped me in my relationships, once I had them, because I tend to be sort of childlike and devoted. I have never played games or felt any pressure to, and though I sympathize with women who get bothered and preyed on, it has never happened to me. As a result, I don't feel "at war" with men and I read these experiences kind of like a cultural anthropologist might.