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fortunate
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02 Aug 2010, 12:20 pm

I have a wonderful son who is full of energy and life; he is 4 and is very smart indeed. I have always known that there was something "different", but I can never put my finger on it because it is so...subtle, nothing like the extensive symptoms expressed on websites, in books and leaflets.

He could read by the time he was 2.5/3, and his understanding of the world around him was fantastic. He is as happy as he is sad, he does not listen to a word you say (typical 4 year old), and he is crazy about everything and likes to talk about everything, and he is charming, engaging and enthusiastic – he is a super boy!! !

But these are just some of the things I have witnessed.........

1. He cries for everything and nothing. There is no reason we can see, but he does. Even if he is playing by himself he will be laughing one minute and then crying the next because "something is not right" For e.g. one of the wheels on his car was not spinning as fast as the others!
2. He cowers at loud noises and bangs, and would never pass by building works or road works without complete hysterics - However, he can shout and scream as loud as he wants and he does not seem to hear himself!
3. He loves the company of adults, but finds it hard to make a bond to children in his age group
4. When he attends parties, he never ever joins in with anything, party games are a no-no, except the food part, but he is quiet and pretty much alone
5. If he makes a friend that friend is his for life and only his, but hates that they talk or play with other children and not only him, and I think they pretty much drift away with the intensity of the situation
6. He goes through phases of eating certain foods, he has just left the "beige food" stage, dry and without any gravy or sauce
7. He is argumentative, and can argue a point like any legal professional
8. He is cripplingly competitive
9. To lose at a game is unheard of, he would rather tip the entire game over then let anyone else win, which is common in our house. He would stop a game in mid flow and not allow anyone else to play, only to start again.
10. He finds it difficult to watch any programme with suspense, and is highly anxious and would leave a room to avoid any stress or cry because he does not want to know what comes next.
11. He can bounce of the walls one minute, but be sad and unhappy the next, sometimes there is just no in-between.
12. To say "no" even though explanations are given is no use, he will argue, cry, throw a tantrum, beg...and then throw or kick something or try to physically push you into submission and ask you the same question 5 different ways until he gets the answer he wants.
13. He likes to work to routines but if it is broken, then the situation can go one of many ways and usually ends in tears. There has to be some logic to why we are "changing things" otherwise problem!! !! !!
14. He speaks to his sister like an adult, even so far as to try and enforce punishment. We have spoken but he seems to be unable to undestand why he can't and we can.
15. If someone is crying he cries too, and if there is a wrong doing, there will be uproar, he loathes unfairness and will stand up for the underdog.
16. He does not sleep very well and still gets up at night to ask questions, and gets upset if you try to dismiss him, and a full on tantrum at 1am is usually best avoided with a swift answer.


I think some of these traits could be just a typical child, but I just think that there is something a little bit more to it.

Thank you for any guidance.



Ferdinand
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02 Aug 2010, 12:23 pm

A vein has just burst in my brain. Thank you.


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Asp-Z
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02 Aug 2010, 12:24 pm

Either get him to answer this or fill it out on his behalf: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html



fortunate
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02 Aug 2010, 1:31 pm

Thanks Asp-Z

I took the online questionnaire for my son, and as the form was aimed mainly at adults, I had to omit quite a few answers as they did not apply to him, but in stating that it calculated a score of 37.

Thank you for your time in submitting this, it was helpful.

Best regards



TPE2
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02 Aug 2010, 1:37 pm

There is a (non-automatic) version for children:

http://autismresearchcenter.com/docs/pa ... pdf#page=9



MindBlind
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02 Aug 2010, 1:45 pm

Hi,

I am not qualified to tell whether or not this is aspergers, but I feel that his rapid mood swings are more alarming than anything. I think that if these behaviours are really getting in the way, you should see a doctor, but keep an open mind becacause this could be anything from what you've told us.

Hope everything goes well for you guys.



Exclavius
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02 Aug 2010, 2:16 pm

Ferdinand wrote:
A vein has just burst in my brain. Thank you.


If i interpret you right, Ferdinand, you saw yourself in that description?
I do too, maybe 13 or 14 of the 16 points described me.
Some of them word for word, others more or less.

fortunate, keep your eyes open for further signs, or if these traits continue... even if they lessen in intensity but persist overall.

I'm not in a position to give advice really, so I'll just wish you the best of luck and end with the note that different isn't wrong... Never let yourself even for a moment believe that it is.



MotownDangerPants
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02 Aug 2010, 3:18 pm

IDK if children who have AS are usually charming and engaging when they are that young, it seems like it's something they pick up later. Maybe he's gifted or has ADHD. Could be AS, though, you never know.

Have you had him checked out?



fortunate
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02 Aug 2010, 3:22 pm

MowtownDangerPants

Thank you for your response,

He was tested when he was 3 years old at his school and they found his had a reading age of 8.
He is very good at maths, writing, spelling is pretty good, he can tell the time, and lots lots more......! !

Best regards,



fortunate
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02 Aug 2010, 3:30 pm

Exclavius,

Thank you for your time.

I truly believe there is more to my son, and I will continue on this journey until I find clarity, for his sake. And I will keep the premise that "different isn't wrong" at the forefront.

Best regards,



cthulukitty
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02 Aug 2010, 3:33 pm

It sounds like your child may be intellectually gifted, or may have the potential to be. His tendency to suddenly change mood sounds like susceptibility to what some researchers call "overexcitabilities". Your child may be processing sensory data more acutely and more deeply than most people, which is why he cowers from loud noises. I was very much like the child you describe, and intellectually gifted is the only diagnosis I have ever received. I do also consider myself autistic, and giftedness does indeed seem to be part of the autism spectrum.

One bit of advice I'd give you is to think of your child's difficulties as indicating that there are skills he still needs to learn. He may be accelerated in some areas of learning, but pay less attention to developing his social and emotional intelligence. If you think of improvement as a process of learning, rather than one of remediating symptoms, you will likely have better results and your child will feel much better about himself.

Also, never forget that a person can be both intellectually gifted and have learning disabilities.

Good luck!


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frag
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02 Aug 2010, 4:37 pm

Sounds like my brother. He grew up to be normal, while me who was more a normal kid grew up and had Asperger's. :p



fortunate
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02 Aug 2010, 4:47 pm

Dear cthulukitty,

After reading your post, I looked on the web for more information on Overexcitabilities and the first website that came up was:

Dabrowski's Overexcitabilities or Supersensitivities in Gifted Children

I was literally overwhelmed to see some of the traits that my son exhibited, and there were many that I did not list on my initial post:

1. Love of "beautiful things"
2. Love of shoes - the higher the better!
3. Love and adoration of poetry in all its forms
4. Love of touching all things especially "paper" and pages in books
5. Asking of probing questions e.g. if the sun is yellow why is the moon white - which lead me to read more about the sun, which led me to the fact that the sun is actually white in colour "Term - white hot" - but looks yellow due to atmospheric scattering which sits in the yellow region of the visible light spectrum.
6. Wicked sense of humour

So definitely a good place to start ....thank you ! !! !!

Best regards,



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02 Aug 2010, 6:35 pm

I think you should probably get him evaluated, because if he starts learning things now, he won't have fallen behind when he is older. (Asperger's is often first detected in the first grade when it is obvious that children are behind their peers with socialization.) He seems quite good at learning; he may need little more than extra lessons in things like socializing and self-regulating, the way a dyslexic child might be given more reading lessons.

Whether he's gifted or autistic or both (I see traits of both; and if he's not both, he's one of them and close to the other), he's definitely going to be different from most other kids. As we've said a half-dozen times, though, different isn't bad. Even disabled isn't bad. It can be tough to be different, of course; but he's got his mom on his side, and he's four--not like some of us, who were in our twenties, thirties, forties (or even older) when we first found out why we were different and could finally start to address specific issues that we thought we were alone in dealing with.

He may not need a diagnosis. He may only need a diagnosis for a few years. Or he may keep one so that he can access various types of assistance and continue to thrive (for example, he seems to have problems with sensory processing, which can make it hard to concentrate on tests in a crowded classroom--if he turns out to have that problem, as I do, he may need to take tests in a quiet room by himself). Some very simple things can make life a lot easier for us; and I don't see a good reason to deny those things just because they come with a label.


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one-A-N
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02 Aug 2010, 7:51 pm

As everyone says, you really should get an assessment so that you know what issues need to be worked on, and so you can get access to the appropriate services, both now and later.

Regardless of how he may be now, there is still adolescence and adult life ahead of him - that can be a big problem time, because the world rapidly accelerates (from childhood speed to adulthood speed) and some of us find that transition very hard. Better to identify problem areas now, and start working on the social and emotional skills he will need later. (In other words: what Callista said).

Anyway, he sounds like a talented person.



davethenat
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03 Aug 2010, 11:34 am

fortunate wrote:

He could read by the time he was 2.5/3, and his understanding of the world around him was fantastic. He is as happy as he is sad, he does not listen to a word you say (typical 4 year old), and he is crazy about everything and likes to talk about everything, and he is charming, engaging and enthusiastic – he is a super boy!! !

But these are just some of the things I have witnessed.........

1. He cries for everything and nothing. There is no reason we can see, but he does. Even if he is playing by himself he will be laughing one minute and then crying the next because "something is not right" For e.g. one of the wheels on his car was not spinning as fast as the others!
2. He cowers at loud noises and bangs, and would never pass by building works or road works without complete hysterics - However, he can shout and scream as loud as he wants and he does not seem to hear himself!
3. He loves the company of adults, but finds it hard to make a bond to children in his age group
4. When he attends parties, he never ever joins in with anything, party games are a no-no, except the food part, but he is quiet and pretty much alone
5. If he makes a friend that friend is his for life and only his, but hates that they talk or play with other children and not only him, and I think they pretty much drift away with the intensity of the situation
6. He goes through phases of eating certain foods, he has just left the "beige food" stage, dry and without any gravy or sauce
7. He is argumentative, and can argue a point like any legal professional
8. He is cripplingly competitive
9. To lose at a game is unheard of, he would rather tip the entire game over then let anyone else win, which is common in our house. He would stop a game in mid flow and not allow anyone else to play, only to start again.
10. He finds it difficult to watch any programme with suspense, and is highly anxious and would leave a room to avoid any stress or cry because he does not want to know what comes next.
11. He can bounce of the walls one minute, but be sad and unhappy the next, sometimes there is just no in-between.
12. To say "no" even though explanations are given is no use, he will argue, cry, throw a tantrum, beg...and then throw or kick something or try to physically push you into submission and ask you the same question 5 different ways until he gets the answer he wants.
13. He likes to work to routines but if it is broken, then the situation can go one of many ways and usually ends in tears. There has to be some logic to why we are "changing things" otherwise problem!! !! !!
14. He speaks to his sister like an adult, even so far as to try and enforce punishment. We have spoken but he seems to be unable to undestand why he can't and we can.
15. If someone is crying he cries too, and if there is a wrong doing, there will be uproar, he loathes unfairness and will stand up for the underdog.
16. He does not sleep very well and still gets up at night to ask questions, and gets upset if you try to dismiss him, and a full on tantrum at 1am is usually best avoided with a swift answer.



Please let me echo the chorus of those who recommend an official assessment. It will help in so many ways, both in his development and yours.

As an adult NAT (neuro-atypical), who was recently diagnosed with Asperger's, many of the symptoms you describe mirror my childhood very closely. #3, 8, 9 and 10 especially were part of my young life. I struggle with 9 & 10 to this day. I was in the gifted program as a child, related far more to adults than kids, and excelled to the point where I skipped a grade (not something I recommend, by the way).

I applaud you also for heeding the "different isn't wrong" mantra. You love your son enough to research ways that you can better understand him, so you clearly want to the best for him. As someone who struggled through life trying to be "normal," I can say that those who celebrated my differences are the reason I am a high-functioning, confident adult today.

Fortunately, there are many qualified individuals who can help you understand your son's actions and behaviors, and help you work with him to accommodate his particular needs to the social world around him. As one-A-N so rightly points out, he will soon be going through a significant growth period, where the "routines" you mention will be regularly and painfully altered.

However, you are starting now, and have picked the right place to ask questions and solicit advice. This is a very supportive community where children, teens, adults and parents of NATs all provide wonderful feedback and support. Please keep asking and keep coming back. Keep gathering resources and revel in the wonders that your child can and will provide you. It will be a transformative experience, however you and your son come to understand yourselves.

Best of luck.


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