A cultural perspective?

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I've a question for you.
Background to my thinking - I live in a Western country. I'm assuming many people here similarly live in Western (or Westernized countries). How much of the aspie incomprehension and difficulty, do you think, comes with that Western cultural and social structure? So much of our social behaviour, consciously or unconsciously, is influenced by that cultural perspective, the immersion of it in every facet of life from speech patterns to social behaviour and appearance/dress, to education, etc. Do you think aspies interact differently in non-Western structured societies? How much of what makes us different is measured by Western cultural and social standards and norms? Would we be so very different in other societies?

I've wondered about that. For instance, in some cultures direct eye contact is considered rude, so I guess an Aspie would not stand out in that way. On the other hand, cultures where it is common for grown men to show physical affection for each other, an aversion to being touched might stand out more than in a Westernized culture..

O yes......my diagnostician told me that autism is (or has been) revered in some cultures. I wish I'd asked her which ones, and how much the air fare was.

The concept of arranged marriages springs to mind. The upside for male Aspies (at least) is obvious - no need to learn the abhorrent art of "how to get girls" - though with arranged marriage cultures, perhaps any element of coercion would be more acutely felt instead, Aspies not usually being good at tolerating personal invasion. I've heard that the "arranged" culture isn't often the ruthless money-grabbing racket it's cracked up to be, and that the "victim" has some power of veto.

Our culture seems rather tolerant of a "give the losers a hand down into the dirt" policy, though it preaches the opposite. Maybe there are cultures that don't play that game? I've certainly known sub-cultures in the UK who observe a genuinely inclusive ethos quite well.

I was married to a Middle Eastern guy for 11 years, and that is a REALLY different culture on so many levels. My ex-husband's mother was from a generation when marriages were not only arranged, but arranged within the family (to a cousin, most likely, or at the very least to someone in your "clan"), and being autistic in such a culture would depend very much on whether you were male or female. You see, my former mother-in-law, like so many other women of her generation, was not able to read or write, so her only entertainment or comfort came from socializing. I often used to wonder how I would handle life in her shoes, and I decided it would be a living hell. No books, no articles, no looking anything up to find more information, not even cookbooks when your only skill is food preparation. She asked me once what the difference between books and TV was.

With men, socialization is still very important, but at least you can be "eccentric" and lose yourself in reading alone for a while, or else go off by yourself for a while. In that sort of culture, though, as well as many cultures rooted deeply into history, socialization is at the heart of it, and standing out as a weirdo is far more noticeable, painful and frowned upon than in our modern, westernized cultures, where technology, information and privacy are a big part of it. As difficult as it is, I'm grateful to live where I do and in the generation I do.

I remember reading something about native american shamans and autism a while back, but I dont remember everything that was mentioned.

I actually think those of us with AS/HFA would do reasonably well in the more eastern asian societies. They tend to have a very strongly built up "structure" which it would seem to be more "comforting" to some of us. Japan doesnt really count anymore as it has been westernized to hell and back. You can easily see the difference between their younger and older generations.

I suspect the better place to be an aspie is the western civilization.

About eastern cultures - they have social codes so complex (including that thing of trying to solve conflicts with anybody "loosing the face") that will be very difficult for aspies, probably.

I think you're right. I have a brother that teaches English in Asia. He says the cultural pressure for group thinking is so strong if he asks his class to give their opinion on a political or social issue nobody wants to be the first person to say anything. I'm not knocking the value of the group as a dynamic, it works well for some things.

Ooh crikey yes......I've heard that some cultures will never say "no" directly - they'll say it's very difficult, they'll say it's essentially a good idea that you're proposing, they'll say anything except no.

Yes and gift giving is extremely complicated in some cultures too.

Ack! Don't get me started on Iranian and Arab gift giving! It's constant. Not only that, but if someone compliments your bracelet, for example, it's polite to offer to give it to her (or him). It's total BS, but very important to say. In fact, polite BS is so important in Middle Eastern cultures that the Iranians (and probably Arabs) even have a word for it, "tarof". Things like "you must stay with me the next time you are in the area" when you've only just met the family, and have no intention of doing any such thing. It's exhausting.

I'm a Westerner and I live in Japan which, IMO, is the most Aspie country around. They don't make eye contact, don't shake hands, have zombie-like rituals done daily... Then again they are not direct at all and are way too into the group mentality thing, which bothers me TREMENDOUSLY!

I find living here with AS to be very easy. The only people who think I am weird are my other Western friends I stare during conversation but the Japanese don't seem to feel threatened by this. They think I'm just a goofy foreigner. I also tend to be extremely blunt and unprofessional when I teach. I've found that- where this would have gotten me fired back home- my students open up more. It is like cathartic for them to be able to say how they really feel for once instead of saving face.

LOL Well, my experience with Western USA style gift giving is odd too or maybe it's just my sister in law. I went to spend Christmas with them a few years back and she called to say they weren't going to exchange gifts that year because people were too "commercial". This is from a shopaholic with access to ample funds.I assumed that meant they weren't going to buy me a present. I said fine. I bought them each a book that cost me less than $15.00 each. I bought them because they both love to read and I thought they would enjoy them. Her response was to get angry. I apparently was supposed to agree not to give gifts either. I thought that was just her deal. She stormed out of them room and came back with $50.00 in crumpled bills and handed it to me so we'd be even.

I wanted to add that if I were actually a Japanese person living in Japanese society I would either 1) learn English and get out or 2) off myself.

The forced socialization here is ridiculous. Businessmen have to go out drinking with their colleagues after work ALL THE TIME. If they don't go the boss will look down on them and pass them up for promotion.

Group mentality is disgusting. If you are an outsider here your life will be hell. I used to teach a really cool, artsy guy with some kind of obvious mental issue. He wound up drinking himself to death cuz he didn't fit in. And then there are the hikikomori who shut themselves away rather than deal with societal pressures.

Some really messed-up stuff going on here if you are Japanese.

Around my Hawaiian relatives it's easier just being me. Eye contact, especially with elders, is considered rude, as are most things that bring attention to oneself, so if you like just hanging back and not saying much you'll fit right in. There is a great deal of hugging, but that's for greetings and there is rarely that surprising kind of conversational touch outside that. There are social things, like luau (everybody gets together), but they're usually family oriented, so you're not suddenly expected to be "on" among strangers. Generally, personality quirks are very accepted so when you need to retreat for a bit, everyone understands and nobody bothers you. Also, the skills of kahuna are similar to autistic ways of perceiving. Things like synaesthesia, ASD, and a whole host of other things we've talked about on WP are often admired and seen as good things, not disorders. ASD is almost like a prerequisite type of mindset of kahuna (aka shaman).

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If one goes back in time to cave paintings, how many Aspies were there among the cave dwellers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting

If one goes back in time 500 years to the year 1500 to the land known today as the state of California, how many Aspies were there in California among the native Indians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits

Asperger is a modern invention/an invented word.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/aspe ... perger.htm

So are all descriptions, names, labels. These things are a matter of degree. Some cattegories are easier define than others.