What is "fairness"?

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My son is 15 now and I still look at him with a mixture of terror, confusion and utter disbelief. You would think that by living with a person for 15 years you would actually get to know them or at least be comfortable with the idea that the only predictable thing about them, is their unpredictability.

Not so. Some days I come crashing down to earth when it is consistently made clear to me that I know NOTHING at all. Just as I think I have a grip on the situation, it morphs in to something new and is a slippery as a snake. So I try to adjust and adapt but not quickly enough, for as soon as I do, I am presented with a new heartbreaking conundrum and set of rules which has me rocking away with a fresh and funky new set of stims in an attempt to calm myself.

When my son says "But that is not FAIR!! !", I instantly go in to process mode. I analyse his request and my response with the acuity of a central intelligence agency, looking for flaws in the argument for my reasoning and the possible negative and positive outcomes should I allow him to do what he is asking. I pull up information from my vast data base and try and apply a set of rules for this process that I have used before, and become anxious while my son looks at me expectantly and contemptuously while the massive cogs in my mind make connections, then decoding connections, then arguing with myself to look at both sides of the debate. This process is set in motion the minute the information is provided that I am not being "fair". My mind cannot help itself. This is the way that I am programmed. I take the data and interpret it, despite my cognitive process intervening and trying to assert itself with the loud proclamations of "He is trying to manipulate the situation. You are the parent so make the decision. I am Asparagus. Hear me roar!! !"

Despite the fact that I KNOW that when he says that I am not being fair, he is simply angry that he did not get his own way, but being a social justice nut and fierce advocate for the downtrodden masses, when the word "fair" is uttered, sirens start blaring, lights start flashing and my poor brain goes on this freight train of righteousness and protection. If anyone wanted to see me behave like a dog with a bone or a pooch with severe territorial issues, just mention "unfairness/fairness" in my presence and you will get the full canine experience.

Logically, it seems to me that discipline is not fair. It is not an equity based system. Discipline is issued because it is designed to create boundaries and keep children safe. I am not saying that there is no opportunity for negotiation, but safety must trump diplomacy every single time. So, when my son asks me if he can go to a fire works display on Saturday night with his cousin, who is 14, and a group of her friends (who I don't know) and I say NO, I am being "unfair".

My measured response: "Well, how can I make a valid and reasonable decision based on the information you have given me? You tell me very little about your circle of friends outside of your school friends, and now your secretiveness has come to bite you on the arse. Maybe if I knew more of the calibre of these people and had met some of them, I would be able to make more of an informed decision. But as I don't, the logical conclusion is to err on the side of caution and say no to your little escapade."

He just looked at me in complete astonishment and disgust and stomped off to school........and the process starts again.

Give me a home where the buffalo roam
And the deer and the antelope play.

Mics

"I am your Mother. It is not my job to be fair. It is my job to raise you to adulthood."

I've said that to my daughter many times. It isn't our job as parents to make our kids feel that we are fair. They probably won't feel that anything we do is fair until they are in their 20's and looking back. If a teen thinks you aren't being fair, you are likely doing the right thing.

Janissy, you are a champion

Thank you

Mics

That's utter nonsense and I don't see how that actually works for an autistic. I would never follow something unless it was fair. I never claim something isn't fair unless it actually isn't.

How do you know that the children we are speaking about are autistic? Or did I read your post incorrectly?

My son is NT and I have Aspergers. Be careful of assumptions. And it matters little whether you have autism or not. We all have to survive and live with boundaries in this world.

Mics

I had a feeling there was a reason I didn't want to say anything yet. I made the same mistaken assumption at first. This being the case, the advice does seem right. I would strongly disagree though that it doesn't matter whether the child has Autism or not. I have three on the spectrum, and "I'm your father and you will do as I say" does not fly at all with at least one, ever. What does work though, is this:

He knows what I think is right, and he agrees with most of it. Fair, to him, means that I say what I mean, mean what I say, and do what I promise. If I violate so much as one principle that I've taught him is right, he will hold that against me, and rightly so. Reasoning with him, most of the time, may not work right away, but over time, it eventually does. If he thinks something I'm doing is unfair or hypocritical, there is NO swaying him.

Demanding anything of him based only on parental authority is a losing battle every single time. It's a chore, yes. It means taking a lot more time to discuss things sometimes, but even that takes less time than fighting with him when he feels I'm wrong. Butting heads never, ever works with him.

(But, we are both on the spectrum, so the dynamics are different)

Does he provide a reasoned argument for why something is not fair? It sounds like he states that something is not fair, and then you over-analyze trying to come up with all the reasons he might think your actions are unfair, and then counter those argumenst in your head. You're doing both his job (advocating for greater autonomy for himself) and yours (making sure that it happens in a safe and appropriate way.) It's his job to come up with concrete examples of why he should be given greater autonomy (by proving through his actions that he's ready for more freedom.) Your responsibility is to listen to him when he makes a reasoned argument- not to make that argument for him when his only reaction is "that's not fair." Whether NT or on the spectrum, part of what he needs to learn is effective self-advocacy. In a few years, he will have to express why he should be admitted to a college or program, or hired for a job, and he needs to be able to make a better case than "it's just not fair" not to hire/admit him.

Thanks MrXxxx,

Fair, diplomatic and truthful, as always. Your posts are often enlightening. I wonder if the dynamic is "easier" when your children are on the spectrum in terms of communication and other things. Due to my inherent naivety and living with the premise, "say what I mean, mean what I say", I , without question, expect others to do the same, including my son. But it is not that way with him, and he often tries to manipulate me. 36 years of being around people in general has taught me some lessons in peoples ability to manipulate the truth. I am very suspicious of people. I would like it if it was not this way with my son.

Mics

This is the General Autism Forum. I think you should be more clear, considering there are a lot of parents that come here about their autistic children. Besides, my reply was to Jannisy. Her post didn´t seem specific to NT children, it just sounded like it was general parenting.

I shall show him this post It is the same statements I have been trying to make for years, with little affect.

Mics

Re: The bolded text:



Seriously though. No, it was far more difficult with all the boys, AND me on the spectrum before any of us knew anything about it, and finally came to understand it better. It's still a struggle, better than before, and slowly improving as we learn more. Before we really began to understand what we were dealing with, it was kind of like NT teen parents dealing with NT teen kids, and my kids were still small!

Many parental restrictions imposed on teens are done for safety. (Like the OP's example.) Since teens tend to think danger is exciting (especially NT teens, which it turns out he is), they will perceive any rules meant to keep them safe as "unfair". They don't see danger as a legitimate reason not to do something. They also frequently think that parents overestimate danger and believe they are perfectly safe just because they don't have the life experience to see actual perils or overestimate their own ability to survive and recover from certain damage.

A parent could attempt to explain the danger and how it is perfectly fair to impose restrictions that minimize danger. Michsta did just exactly that. But since she is the parent of a teen, he just didn't accept this explanation that is perfectly reasonable to an adult. When he is an adult, he will look back and understand. It's Michsta's job to impose the restrictions that will let him survive to that age.

And I think that's fair. Even if no teen would agree.

Last edited by Janissy on 31 Aug 2010, 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am apologising in advance, everyone. I should not have started this post in such a sensitive frame of mind. I am not myself, so if I am not making myself clear, please ask me what I mean, before replying. I feel like my existence means nothing to my precious boy at the moment(for other reasons as well as what I stated in my OP), and I lament my feelings of futility and confusion. I am having a serious neurological disconnect from reality today.

I am going to watch Season 4 of Spooks and have a non-existant cry into my Earl Grey Tea

Mics

I know it doesn't feel like it, but it sounds like you are doing a great job. He will fight these restrictions that keep him safe and they will feel unfair because he believes he is invincible. Once his neocortex finishes forming (20's), it will all make sense to him. Try to hang in there. I hope the Spooks show helps you get centered again.