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I eat like caveman and often carelessly get food all over my clothes like a baby. This is whats natural to me. People have been pointing out my primitive ways for years and would get embarrassed sitting at the same table as me in a restaurant. Before I was diagnosed with HFA I'd get a little self conscious about it cuz people would portray it as an adult vs. child thing but I didn't really care much and always considered other people as p*****s for conforming to some arbitrary, BS standard of whats socially acceptable. It was only after I got diagnosed that I realized its not some arbitrary, BS standard of whats socially acceptable, its just a matter of them seeing the world differently to me. They see the importance of appearing civilized or whatever the hell it is while I prefer to behave in a way thats natural to me. Its the exact same for social manners. I abruptly say what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it but people don't always appreciate my honesty.

Does anyone else here feel like a lot of people are trapped in some kind of herd mentality, kept in check by fear of being judged for displaying the traits of whats considered "normal"?

Herd Mentality in the general public? Yes. There often is.

But dripping sauce on your shirt of cheese curds in your hair is unhygenic.
I'll argue up and down against caring which one is a salad fork and which is the main fork, but I'll still use a fork, and use it properly. MY mother taught me manners.

Some people are trapped by comparing themselves to others, but there is a big difference between being picky about flatware (many societies still find it perfectly appropriate to use their fingers), which glass or cup should be used, etc. and being unclean.

Dropping food all over your clothes being unacceptable behavior isn't about highfalutin' stuffed shirt expectations of the rich and stuck up. It's about hygiene. It looks disgusting because it is disgusting. I'm NOT much of a conformist, but I would not sit at a public table with anyone that didn't even bother to try to be clean. It would ruin my appetite.

Even in societies where eating with hands is customary, licking or sucking your fingers is taboo.

Cleanliness isn't about conformity. It's about common sense. There is nothing arbitrary about it.

Even animals clean themselves.

Being a slob is NOT natural.

Theres a fine line between hygiene and paranoia. A few food stains on your t-shirt isn't going to incubate large colonies of pathogenic bacteria and compromise your immune system. I have an abnormally resilient immune system and never seem to get sick anymore. The more pathogens we're exposed to, the more antibodies we develop and as a result, the more antigens our bodies can deal with in the future. Cats are excessively clean animals but dogs clean themselves only for practical reasons. They clean their asses so they don't get infected. The same reason I clean mine. Some stains on my clothes on the other hand doesn't cause any health concerns for me though so I don't care about them.

An dirty exterior strongly suggests an unhealthy interior.
Animals have a strong aversion to interacting with unhealthy others.
Your health may or may not be compromised, but this does explain why people won't sit with you.

You know the problem. Decide if you want to deal with it or sit alone.

Last edited by OddFiction on 28 Sep 2010, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Exactly. Animals clean themselves for practical reasons. The same reason we do. Your original post isn't about practicality. It's about whether clean eating habits represents herd mentality. It doesn't. It's not paranoia either.

It's just plain common sense.

Of course you don't have to agree with it. Slobber all over yourself for all I care, but you really shouldn't complain when others are offended by it. We are all just as entitled to our opinions on the matter as you are, and free to refuse to eat with you when you don't consider our feelings about it.

Caring about what other people think or how they feel isn't conformity. It's just the considerate thing to do.

Sounds to me like you might be a lot happier living the old mountain mens lifestyle. I don't mean that disparagingly either. I used to want to, and for some of the same reasons.

I've long since learned there are plenty of good reasons, many for my own benefit, for keeping a decent appearance and caring what others feel and think. That's not herd mentality. it's voluntary consideration for others, as well as self respect.

I was too well mannered as a child. Overly thanking someone to where it sounded insincere, always willing to go out of my to give someone a helping hand to the point of being take advantaged of, and being respectful of adults even when their actions didn't deserve. I thought it made me a good kid. It made me more annoying and a p**** more than anything, even though I was really not that way around the people I called my friends.

Now, I eat like a guy. I will get bbq sauce all over my fingers and woof down my food if I am in the mood. But I will clean myself up afterwards. And yeah, there is a big herd mentality that drives people's behavior, and I will often have fun with it. I rarely have understood why people will do so many things without question. It obvious is part of who they are and helps them get along with each other. I usually feel unplugged from that, though I wonder if it isn't better to be a drone then a lone spectator.

I am naturally well mannered in public. Mostly out of insecurity. I constantly worry about what people think of me, even though I know for a fact that their opinions do not matter in the long run. But in public I eat in small bites, always use utensils for everything. And as for social manners I am quiet around people I don't know well. Which they then take as me being a shy person.
In reality, especially around friends I am just like OP. Perhaps worse. Loud, rowdy, swearing like a sailor (f word every five seconds), eating like a dog.
I like my manner-less self better.

I'm the complete opposite. If I get anything on my shirt, I start to panic, than I race off to the washroom and wash the stain off, the best that I can.

agreed.

and even sometimes when manners do not appear to have a purpose (such as eye contact), we are still expected to follow them in the presence of others whether we beleive in them or not. They are a test of cooperativeness and self control.

I don't think eating messily has anything to do with autism because as someone already pointed out hygiene is just common sense. Why would I want food all over me? "Table manners" like how to hold dinnerware are a different story.

On the other hand, I'm not a germophobe and will eat things off the floor, from other people, etc. I still eat unconventionally in about every other way though.

My mother taught me manners, too, but that doesn't change the fact that I have fine motor dyspraxia, which makes using a fork difficult, and thus, not worth the hassle when I'm around people who wouldn't mind if I just used my fingers. And yes, I also eat like a pig, but then again, I come from a food-loving Jewish family, in which eating a lot of food quickly was seen as the norm at mealtimes. Seriously, why insult people when you don't know a thing about them?