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FireMinstrel
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13 Oct 2010, 9:31 am

I was reading a blog about bullying, and it seemed to make a good point: the reason why bullies get away with what they do is because the people in charge also want to see the "undesirables" driven away. Those who make their school look bad because they're ugly/learning disabled/gay/whatever.
How can people fight something that's not even spoken about? I want to know that Columbine, South Hadley, and other incidents like that didn't happen in vain.



Callista
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13 Oct 2010, 9:46 am

Well, it's not a rule that everybody follows; many teachers would rather that the "undesirables" became more desirable (i.e., more successful--the nerdy teen who becomes a computer programmer; the learning disabled kid who gets a job and lives independently; the insecure depressed teen who becomes a confident adult...). But, yeah, there are some people who probably do agree with that, who think that bullying will toughen you up or force you to become more successful just to show the bullies they're wrong.


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DemonAbyss10
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13 Oct 2010, 9:48 am

this is why ive always had a thing against authority. They oftentimes are just as bad, if not worse than the bullies and whatnot.

I also hold a view that those shooters were trying to make a point about how f****d up the system was in the first place. Back when I was school, I oftentimes thought about doing something similar, the main targets being authority figures because all they ever did was ignore the real problems.

THis all in turn helped shape my worldview as well, especially in regards to human nature.


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druidsbird
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13 Oct 2010, 10:06 am

FireMinstrel wrote:
I was reading a blog about bullying, and it seemed to make a good point: the reason why bullies get away with what they do is because the people in charge also want to see the "undesirables" driven away. Those who make their school look bad because they're ugly/learning disabled/gay/whatever.
How can people fight something that's not even spoken about? I want to know that Columbine, South Hadley, and other incidents like that didn't happen in vain.


A lot of the bullying I suffered could have been prevented by teachers. They knew about it, and often openly refused to step in to stop it. Thus was born my hatred for Humans and their ways. It is their luck that I never had access to weaponry at that age.


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FireMinstrel
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13 Oct 2010, 10:18 am

They were all following the unspoken rule. So were those college students whose actions resulted in a student jumping to his death, I suppose.



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13 Oct 2010, 10:28 am

This conversation reminds me of the scene in The Lord of the Flies, when they kill Piggy.

The unspoken rule is cruelly atavistic in nature.

*resists the urge to suggest aspies have evolved beyond such atavism*


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13 Oct 2010, 10:35 am

At school teachers don't do anything about bullying, they say they do but it went on everyday right under their noses. And I think the reason the OP mentioned makes quite a lot of sense unfortunatly. Since you can never get away from the stupid social structure wherever you go, and the effects of such are more apparent for those of us on the bottom of the pile.


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13 Oct 2010, 11:06 am

When I was bullied I had no one. A lot of the time people explain how you should find someone that will help you. Find someone to talk about it and everything.
No one was there for me. The counselors just thought I was crazy, maybe I was just frustrated and said the things I said out of frustration, the teachers would tell me they were on my side. Yet every time I told them something they told me more people said something against my argument and they had to go with the majority.
I got kicked out of classrooms for "talking" even though I wasn't talking.
When I got beat up, I'd be the one with a broken chipped tooth, and bleeding nose. And the police or any authority would say they didn't know who was lying. I have never put my hands or trust in authority ever again. Not even mods and admins on sites. Because in every site I have ever went to, you'd have members breaking the rules, flaming, baiting me. I went to the mods, all they do was a little tap on the back nothing else. They never did anything to make the people stop the behavior. So I took it in my own hands and defended myself, and I have gotten banned for it several times. But none of them have ever helped, none of them had ever done anything to help.

In all my life I have learned to rely on myself the most. Which gets me in a lot of trouble. But, who am I suppose to go to? No one, but myself.



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13 Oct 2010, 11:11 am

druidsbird wrote:
This conversation reminds me of the scene in The Lord of the Flies, when they kill Piggy.


I have read a lot of employment tribunal stuff about workplace bullying, where the victim of bullying was further victimised by the organisation after complaining about or resisting the bully. Organisations "would rather admit to rape than to bullying" in the words of one famous lawyer.

A part of corporate bullying is driven by the belief that the bullying is getting results, and the complaint is interfering with progress - this is especially true in charities, where it is almost expected that volunteers give up their rights and work in horrendous employment conditions because of the greater good that the charity serves. Some of this is the plain thuggery in low-paid employments, where there is not necessarily any personal element to bullying.

Another part is that the victim has broken an unspoken rule of loyalty and should have (usually impossibly) dealt with the dirty laundry out of public view. Beating up on victim-types is also a way of reinforcing the group self-image. This is usually very personal and very intense. It is amazing how teachers, parents, human resources staff and others all either stand by (apparently helpless) or actively join in the bullying.



blondeambition
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13 Oct 2010, 12:55 pm

Unfortunately, teachers are not perfect. If teachers and administrators are not held accountable for bullying by their bosses and the law, kids get bullied.



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13 Oct 2010, 1:16 pm

The general population enjoys watching people fight with each other and bully one another. Why the hell do you think reality TV is so popular, eh?



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13 Oct 2010, 1:23 pm

druidsbird wrote:
FireMinstrel wrote:
I was reading a blog about bullying, and it seemed to make a good point: the reason why bullies get away with what they do is because the people in charge also want to see the "undesirables" driven away. Those who make their school look bad because they're ugly/learning disabled/gay/whatever.
How can people fight something that's not even spoken about? I want to know that Columbine, South Hadley, and other incidents like that didn't happen in vain.


A lot of the bullying I suffered could have been prevented by teachers. They knew about it, and often openly refused to step in to stop it. Thus was born my hatred for Humans and their ways. It is their luck that I never had access to weaponry at that age.


Well, I got my bullying to end in Highschool due to some extremely violent displays on my part. After beating another student to near death for pulling a very cruel "prank" on me, most people were nice to me out of fear. Lets just say that them fearing what would happen if they decided to bully me, made me feel alot better.


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DemonAbyss10
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13 Oct 2010, 1:24 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
The general population enjoys watching people fight with each other and bully one another. Why the hell do you think reality TV is so popular, eh?


Yeah, its a basic part of human nature. Because of how human nature is, ive been trying everything in my power to "shed my humanity", metaphorically speaking.


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13 Oct 2010, 2:06 pm

I don't believe teachers are really against the outcasts. They're just people doing thier job who couldn't care less about personal squabbles. I was picked on, and the most the teachers would do is surpress it to the point where it was no longer disruptive. Can't blame them. Other kids also got bullied, and I can't say I was any better at fighting for the oppressed. I would usually choose the option that would make things easiest on me too (be invisible).

The school shooters didn't die is vain. They got the attention they were looking for, showed how dangerous outcasts can be, and proved no matter how much social status someone has, it doesn't matter if thier no longer breathing. Not something I'd want to die for though. Life is long, and people come and go. I would not want to freeze my image in time as an icon of an environment I hated so much.



Asp-Z
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13 Oct 2010, 2:08 pm

DemonAbyss10 wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
The general population enjoys watching people fight with each other and bully one another. Why the hell do you think reality TV is so popular, eh?


Yeah, its a basic part of human nature. Because of how human nature is, ive been trying everything in my power to "shed my humanity", metaphorically speaking.


Exactly right. Hence my view that all humans are sadistic.