Language development question

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From what I can figure out, the primary difference between Asperger's and more general forms of autism language development is not delayed in Asperger's. But I' a little unclear about it. Is it the absence of speech or the way speech is utilized? I seem to remember having a precocious vocabulary, but I definitely remember being decidedly non verbal. In high school, I would almost never speak unless spoken to, and even then the answer would be very short. This was true until somewhere in my 20s when I figured out that if you didn't talk to people you got nothing and got nowhere. At that point the frustration of learning to converse was less than the frustration of a life with no promise of anything but more heartache.

I'm asking because I am scheduled to be formally evaluated in early December so I need to try to accurately depict my present and historical behaviors.

Language delay means an absence of language or the language is not cmplex enough for the age - it is not about usage. Someone who is selectively mute is not language delayed. How speech is utilized is called pragmatics and that is not a language delay. If at 4 you were speaking in 1-word sentences you would be language delayed because 4 year olds have quite complex language. If you only spoke when spoken to you wouldn't be language delayed as is the case in Asperger's.

I think maybe it was something I read in the DSM. There was something about appropriate use of language, not just whether it was present. It confuses me since before schooling, my IQ tested very high (160+ according to mom). If this were true then the arc of language development would be different, even for an NT. A very high IQ NT would be speaking in full sentences earlier than an average NT. Would not an very high IQ autistic follow a different track than an average IQ autistic? It seems inconsisten to think otherwise.

My use of language as a social tool was historically nil. It still isn't so good. When words "fit" the pattern in my head, then all is good. When they don't then I'm compelled to induce them to fit. Social settings are not amenable to such activity. As a child words were just a way of categorizing my world. Semantically, much of what was said around me was irrelevant to my mental processing. It was mostly just noise. If you did not actively get my attention, I would likely not even know you were talking to me. This is still often the case.

Bump ...

No thoughts?

It's an impairment in semantics and pragmatics in classical autism (with various levels of impairment in receptive and expressive speech; one might be better than the other, for example), whereas it's "only" pragmatics in AS.

Semantics is understanding the meaning of words, verbal and written. Pragmatics is understanding the meaning behind the overall conversation and its context.

The whole speech delay thing makes a lot more sense in early childhood when you can watch a little kid developing language and see if they're slow and clumsy at it (more so than their peers).

The example you give is a good example of something that would confuse AS children but not AS adults. Most of us brute-force our way through a large number of idioms and simply learn what they mean (not necessarily the rules for understanding novel idioms, but enough that we don't need to). See, any really easy example is likely to have been memorized by an adult Aspie. That said, if it's an unusual innuendo and the literal meaning could make sense (or on bad days, when it couldn't), you're almost certain to confuse us. I saw a comic that illustrated that perfectly, but I dunno where to find the comic. It was something like...
A: Want to go to my place for a cup of coffee?
B: No thanks, I don't drink coffee.

And then A proceeded to keep trying to ask B to come over so they could gain carnal knowledge of one another. I took until the very end of the comic to figure it out, and others had to read it several times.

The problem with asking us for examples is that we won't know to tell you that we're clueless about stuff we don't even realize we're clueless about-- so most likely, there are interactions I don't get, but don't realize I don't get.

It's the other way around, actually.

Autism isn't defined by a speech delay. Asperger's, on the other hand, is defined by a lack of speech delay. So, basically, some people diagnosed Autistic Disorder are speech delayed and some are not; while (ideally) no one correctly diagnosed with Asperger's is speech-delayed.

The difference between the two, besides Autistic Disorder having more symptoms, is that those diagnosed with Autistic Disorder have one or more of the following traits:
1. Absence of speech or delayed speech
2. Impairment in having conversations with others
3. Unusual speech, echolalia, scripting, or repetitive speech
4. Lack of imaginative or imitative play

So you can actually be diagnosed with classic autism with your speech being identical to that of an NT if you fulfill that fourth criterion; and the 2nd and 3rd criteria don't involve delay or lack of speech, but unusual speech or impaired conversation.

This is part of why the vast majority of Asperger's cases are actually misdiagnosed classic autism (and why the two diagnoses should be merged--they are not actually distinct categories.).

Verbose language development is one I’ve never understood. What is “one-sided verbosity”?

Being verbose is easy. From what I understand, verbose means using a lot of empty words. I’ve seen this in two forms, over use of adjectives and over use of, is it called declaratives? I flunked HS English, so my “word structure” knowledge is something I’ve never taken the time to fix. I use English well, but I’m not good at telling you the rules behind it.

Concise Sentence: I like how you move your body.
Adjective/adverb verbose: I really like the hot way you move your fantastically toned body.
“Declarative” verbose: I like seeing the way in which you are moving all the parts of your body.

I suffer from the second form, using empty words that specifically describe the information I am trying to convey. I do not suffer from the first form, which is classical verbosity as seen in many kinds of prosaic literature. Does one-side verbosity refer to the fact that in conversation, there is a social norm to speak with the same level of verbosity as those speaking to you? Or does it mean something else?

I always thought to interpret "one sided verbosity" as "one sided conversations". By which I mean, the verbose person giving far more information during their turn at talking than are the other persons involved in the discussion/conversation.

If that's wrong, I need to know what it means too...

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Wave: More important or interesting might be WHY you kept quiet in social situations.

What motivated my question is that I am trying to accurately relate my speech patterns as a child. Clearly this is going to be error laden, but what I do remember was that up until even my senior year in high school is was very unlikely to initiate a conversation and even when asked a direct question I might not even respond verbally - a shrug or nod might be offered or a one word answer. This pattern goes back as far as I can reliably remember. I remember in preschool being decidedly non verbal, but when pressed I would respond with an above average, even precocious, vocabulary.

This is important as I have an appointment for an ASD assessment in 6 weeks so I am trying to construct some form of coherent behavioral history.

I am verbal now, but it seems that somewhere around 18 to 20 years of age I determined that I "needed" to be verbal so I started talking more. It's as if I figured out that all this interpersonal stuff going on around me was built on speaking. So I started doing it.

Now I won't shut up sometimes, especially if it is about something I am interested in. But it appears that my conversational style is still mostly useless for building interpersonal relationships.

Another big difference between AS and AD that people neglect (it's in the DSM-IV-TR) is how the social impairments manifest. The person with AD will most often be indifferent to others (at least as a child no matter if LFA or HFA; the latter tend to move closer to the AS type of social interaction as adults. This is where the gap is bridged and you see that they're all the same or similar disorder, just with different levels of severity), whereas those with AS are socially active, it's just that they don't know how to do it like everyone else.