social anxiety versus aspergers again

Post Reply New Topic

Didn't want to hijack the other thread about this but was interested in what Chronos had to say:

"People with social anxiety just have social anxiety. They usually worry excessively of what others think about them and have a very present fear of social persecution.

A person with Asperger's Syndrome just doesn't have a very sound set of social instructions for one reason or another. Some may be oblivious enough to not even consider that other people think things about them, or some might be aware enough to have a degree of social anxiety.

I would liking it to dancing. You might be able to envision some dance in your head but that does not mean you can dance it.

If a socially adept, well adjusted person is analogous with a professional dancer, then a person who just has social anxiety is someone who can dance when no one is looking but will mess up if someone is watching because they are so worried they will mess up and make a fool of themselves. A person with Asperger's Syndrome would be someone who either knows the steps to the dance and can't dance it, or doesn't know the steps to the dance, tries to dance it anyway, and remains oblivious to how awkward they look to others."

I have social anxiety and don't have a very sound set of social instructions. I think it is because both my parents had social difficulties and I didn't learn social skills at home or by myself when I went out into the world . If I was the dancer I would not be able to dance because I didn't know the steps AND because someone was watching me. Do you think there are similarities between people with aspergers and people with severe social anxiety in that respect - that even though they dont have the necessary social skills for different reasons - they might have similar experiences?

With aspergers do you not automatically fear what people are thinking about you unless you have an element of social anxiety as well the AS?

I like the analogy.

Simple Social Anxiety = Anxious in social situations, even when you know the rules.

AS Social Anxiety = Anxious BECAUSE you don't know the rules.

I think that about sums it up.

So, next question now : do you think that one could have both AS and Social Axiety ? As in, you have grown up and learned some of the rules though they are not "natural" to you so you know you should apply them but are still anxious in social situation ?

(I do not really know if this question is relevant since we could argue that knowing the rules while having to force oneself to use them may be a small variation of the anxiety because one know the rules, but since these rules are supposedly natural for people with no learning disorder or autism disorder, we could also argue that they would not be aware that they know the rules, therefore they would be anxious... but for what reason ? I cannot imagine it ? If you feel anxious because you may be rejected or say something wrong, is not that a proof that you lack or certain rules ? Or is there another reason to be anxious or rejected ?)

I am always surprised when I find out other people think about me at all. My default position is that I don't cross their minds that often. In group situations I see the activity going on around me and am mostly convinced that I exist at the margins of it all. I don't become anxious in social situations so much as aggravated that I'm effectively a minuscule part of the action. My reaction to an upcoming social event isn't fear. It's usually more of, "Well crap. Here's yet another gathering where I won't fit in" and so I go and just put everything on autopilot and leave as soon as it is socially acceptable.

I think so, yes. I think it goes beyond not knowing the rules. Yes, we can learn the rules, but the rules will often require doing things that don't come naturally, so the anxiety shifts from not knowing the rules to knowing but following them requires acting in ways that feel unnatural. The reason for the anxiety may change, but it is still there because it requires more processing than when the behavior comes naturally.

I think simple social anxiety happens when even though you may know the rules intuitively, you have a heightened sense of being watched, and an oversensitivity of what others may think of you, imagining what they are thinking, sometimes to the point of making up what they are thinking.

With AS I think it's more of an anxiety that comes from knowing you are unaware what others are thinking. Wondering, but not having a clue, yet if you have learned the rules, still trying to act "normally" without really having a clue why.

AS (I think), is more like dancing in the dark, while Social Anxiety alone is like dancing in the light and being self conscious because you and everyone else are fully aware of what you're doing.

Social Anxiety sounds like paranoia.

Anyway, thanks for the answer, I never thought about it that way. I think the "AS social anxiety" can affect people who do not have AS but another disorder/disability (like, being deaf, face blind, NVLD, etc) which prevent them from communication "properly" but I have trouble understanding why someone would have social phobia and no other problemn it sounds strange to have social phobia if you are able to communicate properly intuitively.

I have a friend who have social phobia without learning disorder or Autism but she also have depression and a genetic disease affecting her sight so that can be easily explained, she has a tendency toward paranoia it is true, but both her social phobia and depression seem to have altered her social skills.

I do agree there's probably no precise defining line between the two. All I can say is that with one, you have AS too, and with the other, you don't.

The trick is figuring out whether AS is there, and that is, as can be seen from many new user posts from people who aren't sure, usually not an easy task.

Here's my attempt. And yes, I do think the two can go together. But figuring out if you have the Asperger's or not is more important. Asperger's often has comorbid anxiety or mood disorders.

[img][800:454]http://imgur.com/UBijm.png[/img]

I would say the difference is:
AS induced Phobia = Afraid of breaking some social rule due to lack of understanding.
Social Phobia = Fear/predicting you'll make a stupid mistake despite knowing wtf you're doing.

I don't know if concern about humiliation or fear (fear as in terror-fear as oppossed to concern-fear) are necessarily present in the Aspie-Induced phobia, but do think they are involved heavily in the phenomenon of Social Phobia.

If i dont have Aspergers, I do have it now, Ive brain washed myself into never speaking to anyone again for not knowing the rules or erasing them from my memory.

I see myself on both sides of the pie chart circle thingy,

If I did not have a family I would kill myself 2day, but since I do, I have to live, and keep suffering to this permanent problem.

For all of you say make peace with yourself and your AS, I say no, never in a million years.

If you REALLY would kill yourself today if not for family, then you should see about being hospitalized until your suicidal impulse is under control. Your status regarding Asperger's is irrelevant at this point.

Possibly, it depends on the interpretation of this criterion for the diagnosis of what is now called social phobia in the DSM-IV:

G. The fear or avoidance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition and is not better accounted for by another mental disorder (e.g., Panic Disorder With or Without Agoraphobia, Separation Anxiety Disorder, Body Dysmorphic Disorder, a Pervasive Developmental Disorder, or Schizoid Personality Disorder).

'Not better accounted for by'. Theoretically, that could mean that if someone had an ASD but their social phobia is believed to have developed for unrelated reasons, then they could be diagnosed with both. How often it could be determined that the ASD didn't cause the anxiety, I'm not sure. I met the other criteria for social phobia at secondary school, and I'm not sure whether my ASD symptoms were ENTIRELY responsible for it or not, but they certainly contributed.

suicide is the least of my problems

What difference does it make if I feel suicidal or not? really tell me, what difference does it make?

Same with me. I like that circle thingy.

That's a question only you can answer. My belief in your worth as a human means nothing. It is only your belief in your worth as a human that matters.

If you are truly suicidal and wish not to be, only YOU can take the steps towards healing.