IMPORTANT:Carnosine Nitric Oxide Oxidative Stress and AS

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does everybody know about this or is it just me?......


Found out about this on the day I was diagnosed 6 weeks ago. Investigations lead me here...
http://carn-aware.com/aarticle.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Citation

Anyway I severely doubt many of you know much about Nitric Oxide (levels of which are elevated with Autism) and it's all gravy people read this to find out why NO is such a fantastic molecule

"High nitric oxide production in autistic disorder: a possible role for interferon-?.
Biological Psychiatry, Volume 55, Issue 4, Pages 434-437
T. Sweeten"

"Nitric Oxide: The New Hero of Human Biology"

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto ... 00001.html

"Nitric oxide is critical for men to achieve an erection. While many people think its a lack of testosterone its not they need more nitric oxide."

http://searchwarp.com/swa134087.htm

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A964958260

It seems to me that antioxidants are needed in greater quantities when more NO is present in the body in order to stop the breakdown of NO. Obviously more NO, more NO to breakdown. Breakdown of NO and other similar substances might be what causes some of the symptoms of Autism. Which explains why my parents tell me that extreme heavy weight training increased my AS traits (lost? read the article it tells you that excercise up regulates NO and anaerobic exercise would do so much more).

It may not be NO causing symptoms but it seems likely whatever causes Autistic symptoms if it is not NO is elevated in line with NO but IMO whatever is causing higher levels of NO and whatever else through whatever machanisms is clearly the cause of Autism & AS.

Also read this the dark side of NO

http://www.newtreatments.org/cfs

This guys even funny he's so quick to draw conclusions

Also if you had high NO you would have low blood pressure, in short this whole post is largely unsubstantiated by everybody involved (but interesting)

and he might be on to something, who knows but I doubt that high levels of mercury always mean mercury poisoning. It might well be that mecury levels vary from 1 person to another because of genetic and or hormonal variations.



http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/Mercu ... hesis1.pdf


Vitamin B12 is a potent NO scavenger which is why BSN include it in the supplement NOXPlode which is intended to upregulate NO production in order to enhance muscle growth. You could take B12 in similar amouts counteract the NO

Quote from BSN

"NO-Xplode is the world's first and only pre-workout supplement that produces immediate results in energy, size, strength, pumps, performance, MENTAL FOCUS, and training intensity...You will literally see and feel it working within minutes of taking it! NO-Xplode has the unique ability to get you dialed in and pumped up for every single workout by inducing the strongest and most advanced nitric oxide, creatine, and body-mind stimulating surge ever developed in a supplement. No other products can say that! No other products can do that!
Immediate Muscle And Vascular Enlargement With NO Meta-Fusion!"

These ingredients are added I imagine to manage the NO breakdown resulting from the increased NO levels.

Vitamin B6: 25mg (1250% of rda exactly)
(Pyridoxine HCL)
Vitamin B12: 120mcg (that about 3000% of rda if I recall rightly)

IMO YOU SHOULD PROBABLY NOT TAKE ANYTHING TO INCREASE NITRIC OXIDE LEVELS! UNLESS YOU FEEL YOU AREN'T ASPERGERS ENOUGH.

Oh yeah and my councelor who's helping me right now says that ingesting glucose with training is probably why my AS got worse this week when I started doing it.

So this research to me is entirely predictable! Glucose increases two of the ingredients which form NO in fact they are the same ingredients in NoXplode except for Arginine which is a protein and being a bodybuilder I added some protein to the drink which would have included 1010mg of Arginine among other amino acids.

http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/con ... ct/96/1/25

"Conclusions The present study demonstrates that prolonged exposure to high glucose increases eNOS gene expression, protein expression, and NO release..."



Laters

I'm off to pump some iron.

Note to self: It is worth investigating the possability that other forms of sugar eg fructose sucrose galactose do not increase NO as much as glucose. It may well be for example that fruit sugar does not affect AS as much as glucose.

I eat garlic and have taken L-arginine in the past to boost prevent break down of NO.
Oh there is evidence that L-arginine can boost oxytocin which has pro-social effects.

I read in the past some have suggested that boosting NO in the brain can treat ADHD.

http://www.newstarget.com/019433.html That mentions a study of Pycnogenol and ADHD but I think the study is misleading and there is little benefits from Pycnogenol for
ADHD.

I have high blood pressure and increased NO production tends to reduce blood pressure. Trying to reduce NO would not be a wise idea for me

Oh my guess is if NO is involved in autism it does its damage in early in life. Well below age of 6 when the brain has major growth.

Eating a lysine rich low arginine diet should reduce NO production. Look up Herpes diet suggestions for information on it.

Didn't know that about Arginine.

NOXplode and nitric enhancers contain enzymes that your body uses to convert Arginine into NO. The action of these Nitric Enhancers to which I am referring is not so much intended to prevent break down of NO as it is to creatie more of it. It seems the glucose also causes increased NO by increasing these enzymes.

Arginine supplementation on it's own without alot of glucose does not seem like such a problem to me.

I don't have ADHD and this is a news article not a research paper. Plus for all I know ADHD is the opposite of AS!

Introducing NO scavanging antioxidants is probably okay because antioxidants also reduce blood pressure!

Thanks for the input about brain growth. But can you prove it.

This is the study on ADHD and Pycnogenol. The abstract does not mention NO but the discusion in the main artical does I think.

PS: You do not say what method was used to boost NO in the brain. Perhaps the method that treated ADHD was through some other pathway.

I would expect NO to increase mental focus that is after all a symptom of AS.

Posting some abstracts on Pycnogenol and NO.

This abstract suggest that getting enough but not too much NO is important. So seems
regular blood testing would be critical to confirm any safe treatment plan. Plus a plocebo controlled study proving NO regulation had any benfits to autisic too would be usefull. Since it has been speculated over 10 years NO may play a role in autism you would think there would be studies on NO reduction in autistics people.

It is not surprising that autistics react positively on carnosine supplements. A high meat diet contains the required levels of carnosine naturally, but if you eat lots of carbs you will not get enough. Higher prevalence of gluten intolerance is another indication of the same thing. Autistics are not built for carbs, they are built for eating lots of meat. Just as Neanderthals, in fact.

I think ADHD is comorbit with about 50% of aspies and NO reduction in that segment of
the population may be counter productive.

Now I'm confused because carnosine is a substrate for NO production?

The science confuses me a bit, but here's something interesting.

I have only very mild AS traits.
I also have diabetes.
In my childhood this was controlled with a fixed insulin dose by restricting carb intake relative to blood sugar levels.
In my teens I suffered dizzy spells due to low blood pressure.
In adult life the approach to diabetes control has changed, as I am now allowed to eat more carbs provided I balance these by varying my insulin doses. As a consequence my low blood pressure issues seem to have disappeared. However I have suffered problems (allegedly with depression and stress) and this led to my finding out about AS, as the initial explanations didn't make sense. I think the symptoms were always there to a certain extent, but they've become more profound. Or maybe they just didn't matter so much when I was little, because I had more time to myself and much less to worry about?

I don't get it? In the 1st abstract it says increased NO levels were not significant. Surely then this is not even claiming that increased NO is the mechanism of action?

[/quote]

It is not surprising that autistics react positively on carnosine supplements. A high meat diet contains the required levels of carnosine naturally, but if you eat lots of carbs you will not get enough. Higher prevalence of gluten intolerance is another indication of the same thing. Autistics are not built for carbs, they are built for eating lots of meat. Just as Neanderthals, in fact.[/quote]

Okay now I'm really interested in that comment please provide a link I must know more!! What makes you say we are built to eat meat?

There are various evidences of the role of nitric oxide (NO) in several neuropsychiatric disorders. However, there is no clinical study which investigated the role of NO in disruptive behavioral disorders (DBD). The aim of this study is to investigate the relation between NO levels and DBD. NO levels were measured in serum from 45 patients diagnosed as having DBD (30 patients with a diagnosis of attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder [ADHD] and 15 with ADHD + oppositional defiant disorder [ODD]) and 51 healthy control subjects. It is statistically significant that the pure ADHD group's blood NO levels are lower than those of both the ADHD + ODD and control groups. There was no significant difference between the ADHD + ODD group and the controls. The difference of the NO levels in DBD may indicate the effect of NO in the etiology of this disorder spectrum.

Copyright © 2006 S. Karger AG, Basel

I admit I had no idea Carnosine was an NO substrate (forgive me this was all a bit of a rush job) but Just because it's a substrate I don't think it means that supplementation with Carnosine automatically raises NO levels atall. Have there been any studies to show that it does?

TheMachine1

If it is commonly theorised NO may have a role to play as you say. Which if it is this is the first I've heard. Then... Since some people for whatever reason believe we should try to "cure" autism, those people really should have set about doing some research by now IMO.

Especially as I was getting to believe NO had a role to play in AS just by trying to find out if aspergers makes me better at bodybuilding for a half hour or so on google.

IMO there is no need to "cure" anything but I feel that this research should be made available so if possible there might be some kind of "cure" for us to make our own choice.

PS

I thought this was interesting myself

"Myhre syndrome is an extremely rare inherited disorder characterized by mental retardation, short stature, unusual facial features, and various bone (skeletal) abnormalities. Characteristic facial features may include abnormally narrow skin folds (palpebral fissures) between the upper and lower eyelids (blepharophimosis), underdevelopment of the upper jaw bone (maxillary hypoplasia), and an unusually prominent jaw (prognathism). Other findings may include hearing impairment, abnormal enlargement of the muscles (muscular hypertrophy), and/or joint stiffness. Myhre syndrome is thought to be inherited as an autosomal dominant genetic trait."

IMO theres a clear genetic link here between brain developement and metabolic processes in muscle tissue. EG NO levels. It could be one way to unravel the mystery without cutting up peoples brains.

I resist the temptation to ask of every bodybuilder whom I know much about or have heard speak. Okay no I don't.

is Arnold an Aspie?
is Jay Cutler an Aspie?
is Nasser El Sonbatty an Aspie?
is Paul Dillet an Aspie?
is Lee Preist an Aspie?
is Markhus Ruhl an Aspie?
is Dorian Yates an Aspie?
Was Arthur Jones (founder of Nautilus basically howard hughes mark 2 only with big guns popping out of his sleeves whenever he trained more than 2 weeks in a row) an Aspie?
Was Vince Gironda (trainer of Arnold and everybody else) an Aspie?

Mike Mentzer should have beaten Arnold in 1980 and everybody in the sport knows that

He was for sure an Aspie just listen to him lecture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjPOJUjW ... ed&search= the most MONOTONE voice in the history of the universe and everything in it.

Plus his genetics were obviously a big factor. Here he is posing with his twin brother.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRMGWRW2 ... ed&search=

Look here:
Neanderthal theory

There is a study of Neanderthals that confirms that their diet was at least 90% meat. So if the theory is correct, it also means that many autistics are built for this diet as well and will get various problems if they don't follow it. Aspie-quiz also have found that many Aspies have regular diahrea, a possible sign of gluten intolerance.

L-Arginine is used to produce nitric oxide.

Sorry don't buy the too much NO theory. I have low NO and am diagnosed with Aspergers. Since most Aspies tell you they are always cold that further negates having high NO. Because NO increases circulation especially to the extremities.

Thats fine but come on be real you haven't negated anything "even more" by saying what most Aspies are always cold. What if anything does that prove? Maybe that you should wear a coat or turn the heating up?

I could say that the high presidence of asthma and gluten intolerance, helps prove my point because both conditions and in fact all allergies go together with elevated no levels. A gluen free diet decreased NO right I think somebody already said that!

Astma is linked to increased NO as a result of inflamation of the respitory system.

http://www.njc.org/disease-info/tests/Exhaled-NO2.aspx

Nitric Supplement (the label)

Warnings: Individuals sensitive to stimulants should begin use with half the recommended dosage (1-2 scoops) to help access your tolerance. Seek advice from a health care provider prior to use if you have any pre-existing medical condition including (but not limited to): hypotension, hypertension, heart, liver, or thyroid disease, diabetes, psychiatric disease, asthma, pernicious anemia, anxiety, depression, seizure disorder, cardiac arrhythmia's, stroke, difficulty urinating due to prostate enlargement, or if you are taking an MAO inhibitor or any other prescription drug. Do not use if you are pregnant or nursing. Reduce or discontinue use if excessive sleeplessness, tremors, dizziness, nervousness, headaches, or heart palpitations occur. For use by healthy adults only. Not intended for use by persons under the age of 18. Keep out of the reach of children. Note: Due to the translucency of the bottle, do not store in direct sunlight. Store in a cool dry place

Immune System

Researchers at Johns Hopkins University have found certain immune system components that promote inflammation are consistently activated in people with autism, and suggest that brain inflammation may be the cause of autism. Anther study found raised levels of nitric oxide (a chemical involved in immune response which is known to affect neurodevelopmental processes) in the plasma of children with autism.

Some people believe that autistic people suffer from allergies to various substances, mainly foods, and the treatment of these allergies combined with the removal of the offending foods can in turn reduce what are believed to have been behavioural symptoms of autism. However, it would also be entirely possible for the allergies themselves not to be the cause of autism at all but merely a common characteristic of it.

Laboratory of Health Effects Research, National Institute of Public Health and the Environment, Bilthoven, The Netherlands. JGC.van.Amsterdam@rivm.nl

BACKGROUND: Exhaled nitric oxide (NO) has been proposed as novel a non-invasive marker of airway inflammation. OBJECTIVE: The level of exhaled NO was determined in a random sample of school children (7-12 years old) with the aim of investigating the relationship between exhaled NO and sensitization to common allergens. RESULTS: In the 450 children tested by skin prick tests (SPT), the prevalence of sensitization was 29.5% (overall), 21.9% (sensitization to indoor allergens), and 15.0% (sensitization to outdoor allergens). Regression analysis showed that levels of exhaled nitric oxide were closely associated with various measures of sensitization to aeroallergens. Sensitization to indoor allergens was associated with higher levels of exhaled NO (eNO) than sensitization to outdoor allergens when assessed by IgE but not when assessed by SPT. Children with reported wheeze in the past 12 months had much stronger associations between sensitization and eNO than children without wheeze.

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CONCLUSION: We conclude that allergic sensitization is strongly associated with increased levels of exhaled NO, especially in children with wheeze.
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PMID: 12580910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]