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Alexandrovna
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02 Jan 2011, 6:39 am

I am new to this forum, and have read several threads of it.
And in most of them, if not all for I have not yet read all, everybody's trying to mirror NTs' behavior.
Why, though? Why not just be ourselves?
We are a minority, yes. But aren't we alright being the way we are?
Maybe there is something I am not considering, but I couldn't help to question this to myself and thus question you this too.



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02 Jan 2011, 7:09 am

Because it's useful. Because people want to get on in the NT world. We might be okay with who we are, but we (most of us) need to be able to interact with people who aren't us. Personally, I believe in striking a balance between adaptation to the NT thing and being myself.


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02 Jan 2011, 8:09 am

Alexandrovna wrote:
I am new to this forum, and have read several threads of it.
And in most of them, if not all for I have not yet read all, everybody's trying to mirror NTs' behavior.
Why, though? Why not just be ourselves?
We are a minority, yes. But aren't we alright being the way we are?
Maybe there is something I am not considering, but I couldn't help to question this to myself and thus question you this too.


I couldn't agree more - Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

Of course - each to their own, but if we exempt job interviews and similar situations that require some social skills for bare survival - faking is as useless and counter-productive as spitting in the wind.



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02 Jan 2011, 8:25 am

Would you rather be seen as a crazed loner waiting to be locked up for his own protection, or as that stiff guy in accounting who is a little weird but an okay guy?

When you are a minority, some adaptation is advisable.

I perfectly agree that I cannot totally pass, who I am shines through, but "sometimes he says the craziest things" is acceptable to me.



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02 Jan 2011, 8:27 am

It is actually easier to be the "real you" if you have a decent paycheck--most of us aren't lucky enough to be born rich.



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02 Jan 2011, 8:28 am

Because it's practically impossible to be the only person speaking French in a world of German-speaking people.

Most of my interactions with NTs are through studied and learned behaviour; almost none of it comes naturally - I need to work on it and consciously act in a certain way. It often isn't how I'd react naturally at all but I've learned that in doing so, in "going against my natural feeling", certain things are easier in life.

So, I compromise because it's useful - but I'm still me.


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02 Jan 2011, 9:09 am

The honest answer? Because I'm super sensitive. I cry even though I don't want to or mean to, and I cry when people hurt my feelings. The only other alternative I have is to numb and deny my feelings, which to me would be a greater crime than putting on a mask.


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02 Jan 2011, 10:25 am

Be yourself.

Sure. As if that phrase has any real meaning.

"Self" is a symbolic representation of something, an approximation referencing something we perceive about reality and consciousness. But even the best minds have yet to develop a clear and universally accepted concept of just what self is and how it comes about.

Mirroring NT behavior is an expression of this ethereal thing called self, just as much as deliberately not mirroring NT behavior. Each may come from a different set of motivations, but it is still self directed.

Partitioning the world into NT and aspie/autie behaviors is a false dichotomy. There is no clear dividing line between the two, and even among those on the spectrum, the presence of NT and autistic traits are variable and diverse.

I have spent my entire life in a continual expression of this nebulous entity "self". It is this "self" that chooses the tools of that expression, sometimes with fully conscious awareness and sometimes without any reasoning whatsoever. If I adopt an NT behavior, how is it not an expression of my "self"? A reaction of MY perceptions that emanates from the self?

So you suggest I should be less NT and more autie, as if there is some intrinsically greater value in doing so. But you cannot clearly define what that means. Further, you cannot project the consequences of such choices within my life, other than some vague "you would be better off".

The expression, actualization and realization of my "self' has proceeded regardless of what labels have been attached to the process. The labels only exist so that, if I choose to do so, I may attempt to communicate what this "self" feels, believes, wants and thinks.

If you wish, divide my behaviors into NT and autie, even go so far as to judge the correctness of my choices, or even indulge in calling adoption of NT behaviors a betrayal of my essential autistic-ness.

I will continue to perceive, process, integrate and express that which suits me.


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02 Jan 2011, 1:05 pm

And talk to my friends and my family about my special interests all the time? It doesn't work that way, in the real world.


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02 Jan 2011, 2:51 pm

I have been working on re-arranging my life to make things more comfortable for me, so I'll be less exhausted and less anxious all the time. Because trying to be something I'm not is exhausting and I'm sick of spending my life pretending (and still failing) to be normal instead of just enjoying it. However, there is always going to have to be some level of "fitting in", unless you have someone who is willing to take care of you no matter what. Like others said, there is a certain amount of fitting in that you have to do in order to get what you need/want. Unfortunately.



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02 Jan 2011, 3:12 pm

Quote:
Be yourself.

Sure. As if that phrase has any real meaning.


I've got a theory about this phrase. NTs learn to socialise in childhood by playing pretend games. Maybe someone pretends to be a cop and someone else a robber or whatever. Then, during adolescence they start pretending to be adults, or pretending to be cool etc. When someone says "be yourself" they mean something like "sure, use the pretending skills you've learned in the past, but don't pretend you're something you obviously aren't or cannot be because people will see through you and you'll end up pushing people away from you."

Of course, we never really played these pretend games as kids and if we did, we were very bad at them and didn't learn anything so the phrase conveys nothing to us.

As for the OP, I don't think it's a question of mirroring anything, it's just a case of needing to earn a living, maybe having a relationship and simply being able to enjoy other people's company.


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02 Jan 2011, 4:05 pm

Alexandrovna wrote:
I am new to this forum, and have read several threads of it.
And in most of them, if not all for I have not yet read all, everybody's trying to mirror NTs' behavior.
Why, though? Why not just be ourselves?
We are a minority, yes. But aren't we alright being the way we are?
Maybe there is something I am not considering, but I couldn't help to question this to myself and thus question you this too.


I guess some people want to.

I don't really have a choice, I just can't. Not really don't want to at all, just can't. I'm okay with not being able to, but it's definitely not a choice for me.


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02 Jan 2011, 4:25 pm

I did an experiment where I didn't hide who I was at all in college. I became open about liking birds and Sonic the Hedgehog, I even wore a Rouge costume at Halloween....

Results: I was a very unpopular person, and even worse, my roommate and friends thought I was totally strange, though she mostly hated me because I didn't study and was getting better grades than her :lol:

But all I do nowadays is try to not talk about birds and Sonic the Hedgehog unless somebody asks what I like, then when talking about it stop every once in a while and ask if they want me to continue. I find actually people say "oh no, go right ahead!" and seem interested in what I am saying.

If I start rocking in public, I do try to stop that, but in general I do pace and do lots of other things because I really can't help it.

Also with my mood disorder, I can't hide my feelings at all and they are often extreme, that is the one skill I wish I had.


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02 Jan 2011, 4:49 pm

Alexandrovna wrote:
And in most of them, if not all for I have not yet read all, everybody's trying to mirror NTs' behavior.
Why, though? Why not just be ourselves?


First, I really like the replies from Moog and from Wavefreak58.

My reply relates, I think, to what Wavefreak 58 wrote.

Me, I can't mirror NT behavior. I can't act like something I'm not. I can only be myself. My ability to act beyond being myself is rather limited.

I can, though, learn an integrate stuff into who I am. The NT behaviors that I've come to have are things that have become a part of me. I didn't learn to mirror those traits. I learned them and they became part of me.


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02 Jan 2011, 9:57 pm

I always be myself. People make fun of me or give me weird looks but, meh, I'll never see them again. And to those I do see again I'll ignore.

There comes a time when you have to choose a lack of communication over anxiety. I didn't choose. My brain just chose to act this way.

Basically I'm so overloaded by sensory and emotional stress that I become more autistic than I am on my own.

I agree though. I don't like this whole fake NT game. I rather people know who I am. If they don't accept me then I move on. I don't need them.


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02 Jan 2011, 10:12 pm

I tried to fake NT because it's all I knew. I thought my difficulties were personal flaws.

Tried is the important distinction, I think. I don't think I was ever really all that good at it. Just not really aware of how I good I wasn't at it.

I've stopped trying very hard, and I generally feel better about it.

That said, I don't know how autistic I appear to other people, if much at all. Mostly I don't try to cover if someone points something out. I also don't stim much or in obvious ways in public.

So still to some extent, but it's not a major effort.