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DGuru
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25 Jan 2011, 2:45 am

I live in an apartment complex off of campus with a bunch of guys who are very friendly with each other and all know me, but I am jealous of the amount of interaction they are getting in comparison and all the things they are doing with each other that I WANT TO DO! And furthermore wanted to do more in years past but didn't have the opportunities.

I can't get anything done in my room. It's hard for me to focus on school, because I'm not socializing as much as I want to. What pisses me off is that everyone seems oblivious to this. I can tell it's not that they don't like me, they just don't know that I want to do these things but it just seems too awkward to be explicit about wanting to do things.

My own reputation is harming my social life. People know me as someone who "likes to keep to himself". The thing is I DON'T like it. People also don't get that I WANT to talk more but I'm just getting too nervous or can't think of something to say.

I'm just not good at doing all of the work and that seems to be the expectation. I don't mind people coming to me. I LOVE it when people come to me. But they don't enough. What should I change about my body language, style, etc. so people will just subconsciously guess that I want to interact more? What am I doing wrong? What's the science on this? Is there a specific set of things I can do that will get people paying more attention to me and going out of their way to include me more?

I will break my heart if I graduate from college feeling unfulfilled, because after college how am I going to find more people? Certain activities just seem to arbitrarily get less popular with age. What am I supposed to do, amass a fortune(and it's hard to think based on my own principles and values how I would do this in an ethical way) and then hire servants to hang out with me?

PS does this mean I don't have Asperger's that I crave interaction this much? Was it all trouble with nerves or social anxiety like I had suspected it might have been?



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25 Jan 2011, 2:57 am

DGuru wrote:
I live in an apartment complex off of campus with a bunch of guys who are very friendly with each other and all know me, but I am jealous of the amount of interaction they are getting in comparison and all the things they are doing with each other that I WANT TO DO! And furthermore wanted to do more in years past but didn't have the opportunities.

I can't get anything done in my room. It's hard for me to focus on school, because I'm not socializing as much as I want to. What pisses me off is that everyone seems oblivious to this. I can tell it's not that they don't like me, they just don't know that I want to do these things but it just seems too awkward to be explicit about wanting to do things.

My own reputation is harming my social life. People know me as someone who "likes to keep to himself". The thing is I DON'T like it. People also don't get that I WANT to talk more but I'm just getting too nervous or can't think of something to say.

I'm just not good at doing all of the work and that seems to be the expectation. I don't mind people coming to me. I LOVE it when people come to me. But they don't enough. What should I change about my body language, style, etc. so people will just subconsciously guess that I want to interact more? What am I doing wrong? What's the science on this? Is there a specific set of things I can do that will get people paying more attention to me and going out of their way to include me more?

I will break my heart if I graduate from college feeling unfulfilled, because after college how am I going to find more people? Certain activities just seem to arbitrarily get less popular with age. What am I supposed to do, amass a fortune(and it's hard to think based on my own principles and values how I would do this in an ethical way) and then hire servants to hang out with me?

PS does this mean I don't have Asperger's that I crave interaction this much? Was it all trouble with nerves or social anxiety like I had suspected it might have been?


I don't think wanting social interaction excludes you from having Asperger's. It would for schizoid personality disorder.

I think people with autism would actually love to interact socially a lot more if there wasn't so much accompanying junk making it hard for us.

If you want people to include you, you'll have to make signals. They can be verbal or non verbal. Non verbal signals would be showing physically that you enjoy yourself when with people. Open body language. Closed body language would suggest you would rather be alone.

Verbal would be telling people you enjoy their company/hanging out/doing whatever. You can always be the one to initiate social interaction, call someone, facebook them, email whatever. That's actually a good idea, cos then you can set some of the parameters for the conditions of socialising.

Basically, If people don't get appropriate feedback, they won't know that you care.


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Last edited by Moog on 25 Jan 2011, 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
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25 Jan 2011, 2:59 am

I've had this problem a bit myself in the past.

I never did quite figure out why.



DGuru
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25 Jan 2011, 3:29 am

Moog wrote:
I don't think wanting social interaction excludes you from having Asperger's. It would for schizoid personality disorder.


It almost seems the way people talk about this a lot is like it's supposed to.

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If you want people to include you, you'll have to make signals. They can be verbal or non verbal. Non verbal signals would be showing physically that you enjoy yourself when with people. Open body language. Closed body language would suggest you would rather be alone.


Difficult. I have to actually think about making my body language appear more open for that to work. Same with eye contact. Eye contact from others doesn't bother me, but I have to think to do it.

Another big problem is not knowing enough about a lot of the things I'm interested in, or been interested in even a long time and then wanting to participate but afraid of screwing up. And then I don't always know what to say. I've tried saying more and more random stuff, which is fun and it fulfills my need to talk(if I don't talk enough it depresses me), but doesn't really communicate too much.

I'm also not just interested in showing people I want to hang out but that I want to do certain things too.



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25 Jan 2011, 4:32 am

DGuru wrote:
Moog wrote:
I don't think wanting social interaction excludes you from having Asperger's. It would for schizoid personality disorder.


It almost seems the way people talk about this a lot is like it's supposed to.


A lot of people think this, but the only requirement is that you have difficulty in social situations. Unfortunately, social difficulties lead to isolation, so isolation is common.



DGuru
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25 Jan 2011, 5:04 am

Yensid wrote:
DGuru wrote:
Moog wrote:
I don't think wanting social interaction excludes you from having Asperger's. It would for schizoid personality disorder.


It almost seems the way people talk about this a lot is like it's supposed to.


A lot of people think this, but the only requirement is that you have difficulty in social situations. Unfortunately, social difficulties lead to isolation, so isolation is common.


Well yes but I mean people equate it not with isolation but desire for isolation.

Involuntary isolation is the most depressing thing in the world. I guess part of it is there's so much residual depression and anxiety built up for all those past years where I was barely socializing at all(but desperately wanted to).

My life is so far away from being "ok". All that kept me from suicide is knowing it might get better. I actually fear death, because if it happened now(I know odds are it won't) I will have had a miserable life. I want to make my life happy with all the things I need for happiness. When I'm old and on my deathbed I want to be celebrating my life, not telling my children and grandchildren(if I have them) "I had a terrible life. Here are my mistakes..."



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25 Jan 2011, 7:14 am

Maybe it would help if you were to study the art of conversation?

http://www.basicincome.com/bp/artofconv.htm

If you want to go the extra mile and beat the NTs at their own game, there's this sort of thing:

http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/ucce50/ag-l ... icle40.htm

Of course you'd have to make it a special interest, and your Aspie traits will hold you back to some extent, but if you can master empathic conversation, I get the impression that most NTs don't know their ass from their elbow with that particular game. Don't run away with the idea that NTs are particularly good at interaction......they might have a lot of intuitive stuff that we don't have, and they might be able to shift their focus quicker than we can, but I suspect that an Aspie who works diligently on the subject can pip them at the post. Because when we learn a thing, we really do learn it....the fact that we have to see it consciously gives us an edge over the competition, I think.

I can't vouch for the truth of all the statements in those articles, and you'll no doubt find a few porkies in there, but at least it gives food for thought.



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25 Jan 2011, 8:09 am

What about practicing by starting interacting with one or two people, then being in situations with three or four, and adding more as you are ready.

Or going by topic-you could interact when they are talking about things you can talk about, and when they aren't you can find a reason to have to leave.

Or movies or things that don't require talking but you are still in a group of people might be a starting point.

I hope this makes sense. I don't want to interact with groups like you do so may not be able to help or say anything that will help.



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25 Jan 2011, 9:20 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Maybe it would help if you were to study the art of conversation?

http://www.basicincome.com/bp/artofconv.htm

If you want to go the extra mile and beat the NTs at their own game, there's this sort of thing:

http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/ucce50/ag-l ... icle40.htm

Of course you'd have to make it a special interest, and your Aspie traits will hold you back to some extent, but if you can master empathic conversation, I get the impression that most NTs don't know their ass from their elbow with that particular game. Don't run away with the idea that NTs are particularly good at interaction......they might have a lot of intuitive stuff that we don't have, and they might be able to shift their focus quicker than we can, but I suspect that an Aspie who works diligently on the subject can pip them at the post. Because when we learn a thing, we really do learn it....the fact that we have to see it consciously gives us an edge over the competition, I think.

I can't vouch for the truth of all the statements in those articles, and you'll no doubt find a few porkies in there, but at least it gives food for thought.


I like your post TD.

I think I'm actually better than NTs at many aspects of communication now. This is because I've actively thought about and made a study of the art of communication. Most people just communicate, and sometimes they get better at it.

DGuru wrote:
My life is so far away from being "ok". All that kept me from suicide is knowing it might get better. I actually fear death, because if it happened now(I know odds are it won't) I will have had a miserable life. I want to make my life happy with all the things I need for happiness. When I'm old and on my deathbed I want to be celebrating my life, not telling my children and grandchildren(if I have them) "I had a terrible life. Here are my mistakes..."


Things can get better, I hope they do for you. Keep at it. It's all in your hands.

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Difficult. I have to actually think about making my body language appear more open for that to work. Same with eye contact. Eye contact from others doesn't bother me, but I have to think to do it.


I don't know if it's possible for everyone, but if you do something enough, it becomes second nature. It's like learning to drive a car, you do have to put a lot of thought into it at first, but then gradually the skills seep into your subconscious, and then they happen automatically.

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Another big problem is not knowing enough about a lot of the things I'm interested in, or been interested in even a long time and then wanting to participate but afraid of screwing up. And then I don't always know what to say. I've tried saying more and more random stuff, which is fun and it fulfills my need to talk(if I don't talk enough it depresses me), but doesn't really communicate too much.


If you don't know enough about something you can ask questions. Most people really enjoy answering questions. It makes them feel knowledgeable and useful. You don't have to know everything about everything before you have a conversation about it.

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I'm also not just interested in showing people I want to hang out but that I want to do certain things too.


Okay then, but it is an option.

And yes, it does seem like aspies hate to socialise, but there's good reasons for that. Like I say, strip away the negative factors that keep us from enjoying socialisation, and we'd have just as much desire to do it.


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25 Jan 2011, 9:35 am

I dunno if anyone's suggested this one before, but, why don't you join a club or interest group? College campuses often have a lot of clubs and groups and things where you could go out and meet people at. A big problem that I run into when trying to make friends is that I hate small talk and anything that doesn't involve some sort of deep conversation. But, if you share an interest with someone, it makes things a lot easier. A club or group might help you... a few suggestions might be a chess club, some sort of individual sport (I hate group sports, but you might enjoy them), or perhaps something related to science or whatever else you're interested in.

My one experience with a club was while I was in Japan. I wouldn't have joined it except I was getting extreme pressure from my host mom to get out and be social. It turned out to be pretty fun. It was an English Conversation Club, so I got to help a lot of the Japanese students there with learning English. I was performing a service and I was also getting a lot of practice with speaking to people. Since English wasn't their native language and Japanese wasn't mine, they were a lot more forgiving with cultural or social mistakes. I think that's why I enjoyed studying languages so much... It helped me to develop some of the tools in order to speak to other people properly. Good language classes teach you about body language, cultural subtleties, and what to say. These are all things that people with AS desperately need help with. Another cool aspect is that when you're in a foreign country and look foreign, most of the oddities that you do or say get written off as a cultural difference. This is a definite plus.



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25 Jan 2011, 10:01 am

Moog wrote:
it does seem like aspies hate to socialise, but there's good reasons for that. Like I say, strip away the negative factors that keep us from enjoying socialisation, and we'd have just as much desire to do it.

Yup.....there's not much left of motivation after repeated failure. It'd be interesting to find out how many "asocial" Aspies really are dyed-in-the-wool asocial, and how many gave up so long ago that they no longer feel any desire for human company.



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25 Jan 2011, 10:09 am

Aspies don't hate to socialize. They just get overwhelmed by it so much that often times they push it away. It gets frustrating too, to continually put effort into something that doesn't turn out the way you want.

I have felt like you, in the past. But- TBH- I only feel that way when I am around a bunch of NT people who are getting on well with each other. Then I am made clearly aware of how alone I am. So I just stop socializing, except in small groups with other weirdos like me.

I wish I knew what to tell you to make you feel better. You could keep trying to make friends, if you have the energy. The thing is you say you are waiting for people to come to YOU. But, you have to come to them too.



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25 Jan 2011, 12:03 pm

DGuru wrote:
I'm just not good at doing all of the work and that seems to be the expectation. I don't mind people coming to me. I LOVE it when people come to me. But they don't enough. What should I change about my body language, style, etc. so people will just subconsciously guess that I want to interact more? What am I doing wrong? What's the science on this? Is there a specific set of things I can do that will get people paying more attention to me and going out of their way to include me more?


I'd try to find a student organization whose principles or ideas interest you, then see what it takes to get involved. You'll meet other people who share the same interest, and you can talk to others about that interest and not have to worry so much about small talk. The socializing will simply come later.

It took me a year to find such a group at my college, but the experience I had was one of the highlights while I was there.

What size college are you attending? Generally the larger ones have much more to offer in terms of diversity of people and activities.


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25 Jan 2011, 5:03 pm

DGuru wrote:
Well yes but I mean people equate it not with isolation but desire for isolation.


Absolutely. This is the hardest thing to overcome.

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Involuntary isolation is the most depressing thing in the world. I guess part of it is there's so much residual depression and anxiety built up for all those past years where I was barely socializing at all(but desperately wanted to).


Nods. Been there.

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My life is so far away from being "ok". All that kept me from suicide is knowing it might get better. I actually fear death, because if it happened now(I know odds are it won't) I will have had a miserable life. I want to make my life happy with all the things I need for happiness. When I'm old and on my deathbed I want to be celebrating my life, not telling my children and grandchildren(if I have them) "I had a terrible life. Here are my mistakes..."


I'm at the point where I don't care what I leave behind. I just recognize we have only a limited number of days to live, and its a shame to waste any of them.