Beyond NT
First post everybody.
I'm very new to AS and NT, so I'm still struggling with the basics. The first one is why the range of social behavior runs from normal to AS. Is there such a thing as over-socialized, beyond NT?
Example 1, I would argue that any AS, when presented with the evidence, would agree that evolution and natural selection is a fact. But for long-standing social reasons, many people are unable to make the connection. They're told by they're peers and people they respect that it's not real, and that's good enough.
Example 2: There are social structures that are built entirely on loyalty trust and fear, with little regard for the truth. It might go like this.
Saddam: So how are my weapons of mass destruction coming?
Scientist not wanting to be shot: Great! We're almost there!
I'm seriously wondering if some people are predisposed to social interaction over logic. If they are, is it for the same, but opposite reason that I'm predispsed to logic over social interactions?
If so, these people are more disabled than I am.
statistical majority does not equal truth
So very true.
Further, any AS personnel presented with CONFLICTING facts has to resolve it. Many people of course are fine believing two things in direct conflict.
Doublethink.
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statistical majority does not equal truth
So very true.
Further, any AS personnel presented with CONFLICTING facts has to resolve it. Many people of course are fine believing two things in direct conflict.
Compartmentalization of beliefs is necessary if you want to function. Holding two contradictory beliefs is required when neither can be sufficiently defined to resolve the conflict. If everything we believed had to be without contradiction, then we would be frozen into inaction while resolving everything that is inconsistent in our minds.
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When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.
I'm very new to AS and NT, so I'm still struggling with the basics. The first one is why the range of social behavior runs from normal to AS. Is there such a thing as over-socialized, beyond NT?
Example 1, I would argue that any AS, when presented with the evidence, would agree that evolution and natural selection is a fact. But for long-standing social reasons, many people are unable to make the connection. They're told by they're peers and people they respect that it's not real, and that's good enough.
Example 2: There are social structures that are built entirely on loyalty trust and fear, with little regard for the truth. It might go like this.
Saddam: So how are my weapons of mass destruction coming?
Scientist not wanting to be shot: Great! We're almost there!
I'm seriously wondering if some people are predisposed to social interaction over logic. If they are, is it for the same, but opposite reason that I'm predispsed to logic over social interactions?
If so, these people are more disabled than I am.
No offence intended, but I read that Japanese society is set up like this, although individuals aren't that different
I'd also like to make the observation that if there are a group of people, say 1 %, who are superior to others socially, scientists and psychologists aren't going to be motivated to discover it. To them everything seems to be normal (ie them) or below normal. If there were superior social beings - maybe they are nicer than the rest - the psychologists would say they were nuts. At best.
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"Aspie: 65/200
NT: 155/200
You are very likely neurotypical"
Changed score with attention to health. Still have AS traits and also some difficulties.
statistical majority does not equal truth
So very true.
Further, any AS personnel presented with CONFLICTING facts has to resolve it. Many people of course are fine believing two things in direct conflict.
Compartmentalization of beliefs is necessary if you want to function. Holding two contradictory beliefs is required when neither can be sufficiently defined to resolve the conflict. If everything we believed had to be without contradiction, then we would be frozen into inaction while resolving everything that is inconsistent in our minds.
+1
Necessarily necessary, but there is that tendency to leave it alone, and the growth stops. There is comfort and protection in mass thinking. It wins material rewards and security. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest for heresy:
He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition.[51] On the following day this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.[52]
Tomb of Galileo Galilei, Santa CroceAccording to popular legend, after recanting his theory that the Earth moved around the Sun, Galileo allegedly muttered the rebellious phrase And yet it moves, but there is no evidence that he actually said this or anything similar. The first account of the legend dates to a century after his death.
I don't understand how people cannot believe in these things as they are fact.
The thing that is not fact is Macro evolution.
There has never been any proof that I have seen that one species can evolve into a completely different one. This is what I find as the flaw in the evolution talk.
In short I don't believe people evolved from Monkeys or Apes.
Verdandi
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Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
I don't understand how people cannot believe in these things as they are fact.
The thing that is not fact is Macro evolution.
There has never been any proof that I have seen that one species can evolve into a completely different one. This is what I find as the flaw in the evolution talk.
In short I don't believe people evolved from Monkeys or Apes.
If speciation is impossible, where do the species come from?
I don't understand how people cannot believe in these things as they are fact.
The thing that is not fact is Macro evolution.
There has never been any proof that I have seen that one species can evolve into a completely different one. This is what I find as the flaw in the evolution talk.
In short I don't believe people evolved from Monkeys or Apes.
If speciation is impossible, where do the species come from?
You may well indeed regret asking. In my experience debating with such entrenched thinking gets you nowhere. Whatever argument or proof you bring to the table they won't accept because to them it is about belief. The problem starts with the statement "I don't believe people evolved from Monkeys or Apes." Everything else flows from that.
That is all I have to say on this subject.
Compartmentalization of beliefs is necessary if you want to function. Holding two contradictory beliefs is required when neither can be sufficiently defined to resolve the conflict. If everything we believed had to be without contradiction, then we would be frozen into inaction while resolving everything that is inconsistent in our minds.
+1
Necessarily necessary, but there is that tendency to leave it alone, and the growth stops. There is comfort and protection in mass thinking. It wins material rewards and security. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest for heresy:
Sadly, I believe you are correct. It seems that having conflicting beliefs does not generate much tension within many people and it is easier to just trundle ahead without any real attempts to resolve internal contradictions. I suppose it is plausible that Aspies have a lower tolerance for such cognitive dissonance. We seem to really want everything to fit into its place.
_________________
When God made me He didn't use a mold. I'm FREEHAND baby!
The road to my hell is paved with your good intentions.
.
Taxonomists chose to give every organism, living or extinct, a species name. This is why there is no such thing as "between species". Taxonomists never created that category.
Verdandi
Veteran
Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)
Since there is no truly stable state of "species" categorization over the long term, then all living things are constantly in a state between species, I would think. And all are between species while also being species, because they are categorized from particular points in history, and thus defined in the state in which they were observed or recorded.
Last edited by Verdandi on 22 Feb 2011, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Compartmentalization of beliefs is necessary if you want to function. Holding two contradictory beliefs is required when neither can be sufficiently defined to resolve the conflict. If everything we believed had to be without contradiction, then we would be frozen into inaction while resolving everything that is inconsistent in our minds.
+1
Necessarily necessary, but there is that tendency to leave it alone, and the growth stops. There is comfort and protection in mass thinking. It wins material rewards and security. Galileo spent the last years of his life under house arrest for heresy:
Sadly, I believe you are correct. It seems that having conflicting beliefs does not generate much tension within many people and it is easier to just trundle ahead without any real attempts to resolve internal contradictions. I suppose it is plausible that Aspies have a lower tolerance for such cognitive dissonance. We seem to really want everything to fit into its place.
I really, really don't understand how people can live their life without wanting to question and resolve things. I don't understand not having that mindset.