Autistics and Beliefs!

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I read up something the other day that autistic people can't differ there own beliefs from other people.

What does that mean exactley?

Not only is that wrong, but whoever wrote that is ignorant.

It's basically saying that we all think that everyone shares our beliefs, and/or we cannot recognize that other people have differing beliefs. So wrong.

That is the part about Theory of Mind (link)

I find it hard to a degree to differ my beliefts from others and to try and understand others peoples differing viewpoints about certain subjects. Basicly trying to make sense of the world.

It's more complex than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

Over time, an autistic person can develop a conscious theory of mind. Sometimes it breaks down, though, if stressed or excited.

I can be incredibly frustrated when I discover that the person I'm talking to does not know what I know. It shocks me if I have to explain myself- I just forgot that they could possibly not know what I know.

Conversely, I'm sometimes surprised when someone remembers something I have forgotten.

It's not that we can't differ our beliefs from others, but that it's difficult to bother with remembering that others may have beliefs which are not our own.

Yes I would agree with that and this really links back to be able to relate to others better. When in a rational mood its easier to see that people differeing points of views to our own but i find when angry its harder to see other peoples diverse beliefs.

When I was young, this was true. I started learning those lessons in my teens. And honestly, why would anyone question how other people think?

I sort of find it logical that people are alike in basic functions... everyone's heart beats, everyone's lung breathe, everyone's brains think... learning the differences just comes with experience. Apparently NT's come hardwired with this knowledge though.

I'm not surprised when someone doesn't agree with me or think the same way I do - I'm used to that by now. But I am frequently surprised when someone doesn't know something I know - not about one of my special subjects, just something I would consider common knowledge.

I think autistics have a delusion that if they present a clever enough argument they can challenge and persuade people to their way of thinking. However most people do not want their beliefs challenged so the presentation of facts simply annoys them.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzAk9TB4SsU[/youtube]

ToM can vary as in the vid. of 11 year old.

ToM in as far as knowing someone has a different belief than my own has never been a personal problem as back as far as I can recall.

I have never been that self/other unaware.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzAk9TB4SsU : for better explanation and comments on vid.

I always knew my beliefs, but when I was younger, I was completely oblivious to the thoughts and feelings of other people. I thought everyone would think the same way I did, and I couldn't understand if they didn't. Now I know people have different ideas, thoughts, emotions, etc, but I still cannot identify them unless they tell me. I cannot interpret other people, so they need to be very direct with me. I am also very rigid with my thinking I've been told, so sometimes I have trouble understanding where other people are coming from, and I always seem to see things in black and white terms, so even if I know someone has a different belief, I can't always understand why and I have trouble changing my own view. That is not to say that I am a jerk about it. I don't talk much, so I usually just keep everything quiet unless I am pushed too much.

When I was younger, I assumed that everyone shared my opinions, in one way or another.

It is not wrong. Some can recognise that others have opinions and some can struggle with it. For most of my life I was unaware of it and now I see it as more of challenge. Do I just let it go or continue to argue that my point is right? Sometimes I fail to see that I'm even arguing so I can get stuck in thinking my is right.

This. I did.

Very few people understand how persuasion works.

This has been a work in progress for me. I think the first time I was actually confronted with the stark reality that other people held fundamentally different views than me was in the first grade, but this didn't actually inform me that other people held all kinds of different views. I still have issues seeing other people's point of view, or particular kinds of point of view, as reasonable or well-thought out, but my awareness of where reasonable people can differ has expanded a lot.

I remember at various times being surprised or shocked at people expressing thoughts and opinions unlike mine, or people who expressed dislike of something I was doing (and didn't realize it was a dislikeable thing). What was also interesting to me was I could do something that annoyed person A, be told it was annoying, but still do it and annoy person B in a different context (I remember this happening three or four times with a kind of casual teasing that I thought was friendly - and yet I still do it with one person right now, so it seems like every individual person has to tell me they are not okay with it for it to sink in).

I also have issues with needing people to agree with me (because they're obviously wrong!) rather than simply make our points and stop. I know that "agree to disagree" just kind of doesn't work well for me. There are ways for me to disengage that don't feel quite so wrong to me, though.

I guess what bothers me is how some equate this kind of thing to things like "a lack of awareness of other minds" or even suggesting that autistic people aren't aware of other people.

And it's not even that I am incapable of looking at other perspectives, but it is more of an intellectual effort, and not something that comes automatically. I can do this when, say, writing and creating characters and constructing logically consistent worldviews and opinions for them (even if I hate those opinions and think they are ridiculous), but it makes it difficult to handle it in real time. It becomes a processing bottleneck.