Naivité

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I thought I would start a new thread about this, since we've ended up highjacking another one somewhere else.

Any other trusting, naive Aspies out there?

On further reflection I have decided I am not "pretending." That is not an accurate description of what goes on. Rather, I'm compensating. I've become aware that I lack some sort of innate ability (that everyone else appears to have) of perceiving social dangers, so I'm compensating by using my imagination to try and scan for dangers I do not perceive naturally. I am not talking about physical dangers, such as being run over by a car. I do have common sense when it comes to that sort of thing, but when it comes to having an instinct that tells me "do not leave your things here with these men, because XYZ could happen" I simply don't have it. I would never in a million years have figured out that there was anything wrong with leaving my things with those men. Hence, I have realised that I am going through life walking blindly into situations that other people would be able to analyse with this missing sense that would enable them to see all the dangers, and I'm aware that I don't have it and that consequently all sorts of terrible things could happen to me according to the NT adults. So I'm constantly having to analyse everything over and over, and ask myself all the time: "what's the worst that could happen here?"

This has turned me from a happy, bouncy, radiant, innocent child into a bewildered, paranoid, cynical, defensive, frightened adult. I am constantly worrying about anything and everything, because of all these awful things the world is always saying might happen to me, and have gone from one extreme to the other. I have to have my doors locked ALL THE TIME in case of burglars or rapists. I worry about identity theft. I worry about invasions or WW3. I worry about having a survival kit ready in case I have to flee my house. I worry about my dog being stolen from me. I worry about running out of food. I have copious supplies of bottled water, in case the pipes freeze or the water becomes contaminated. I have two first aid kits, not one, and two survival bags. I worry about hackers. I worry about viruses. I encrypt all my data and make multiple copies. I worry about anything and everything, but do you know what? I'm sick of worrying, because when I think about it carefully, they (the NT adults) are always wrong, and I was always right. They always screeched at me: "you shouldn't have done that! Just think what could have happened!" but it never did. I was always fine. They always said that AFTER some event that had gone ahead perfectly smoothly, with no murders or muggings or ID theft or anything bad at all. They are the ones with the problem, not me. I was much happier just being trusting and carefree all the time.

I wish they didn't have to contaminate my brain with all their worry. People may roll their eyes at EgyptianCat, and say "don't worry, you're young. You'll learn soon enough, and grow up and grow out of your naivité." Well, I am jealous of him, and I think it ought to be the other way round. I wish I could grow DOWN, and go back to my happy naivité, instead of having it torn away from me so angrily by all the NTs.

You sound like you're in a lot of hurt and pain all_white ):

Unlike you I accidentally leave my windows opened at night, I leave the back door opened when I leave the house (When no one is home).
It's just easier for me to back in the house if I lost my keys. I don't let anyone know that my back door is opened though (If my Mum found out that the back door was opened, she'd be furious )

I don't think it's always too bad to worry, but worrying too much is bad.
If you want I can help you think more like me, the way you use to think~♥ (:

I feel flattered that you're jealous of me .
It makes me feel very honored, thank you~♥

The only thing I don't trust people with is my Passwords or my personal information online.
I gave away my personal information out once on a forum website.
Over 2000 people were able to see my address, my real name etc.

And I have been hacked several of times before.
But this is years ago, now I am more secured and don't give out my details so easily now~♥

I clean up my computer regularly and fix it up. I've noticed that most people's PC's become slow or just crash a lot, my PC hasn't done that for a long time now.

all_white, you're a good friend, thank you~♥ (:

Yes, I want to stop worrying so much. I don't think it's good to be completely naive, but it's not good to be totally paranoid, either. It's best to find a healthy balance. That is what I hope to achieve.

I'll start by declaring I no longer want to have those kinds of people in my life. The kind who try to control me, and tell me what my brain is meant to be thinking, and get me all worried because I realise it's not thinking what they want it to think. Who are they to tell me what I ought to be thinking, anyway?

I'm happier just being me. Maybe I need to "grow down" again. Or maybe I have never grown up at all, and just need to accept that, and play and have fun.



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o0ExGXfs2o[/youtube]

I think a healthy balance is good (:

I like you when you're happy
You're so funny, and hyper like me

Also, watch this video (Yes, I have him as a Teddy too. I've had him since I was a baby, can you blame me? He's so cute!)

Also, "Hey pumba, not in front of the kids" - "Oh, sorry"
What was he going to say? It's taken me all these years, and I still don't understand! I'm tired of re-watching movies just to understand one scene ):
I mean, I love watching the movies, just doesn't make me feel too good that I have to keep watching it over and over again just to understand simple things.

This song always makes me smile and happy, no matter how sad I am. I can't believe I forget about it most of the time when I feel sad or stressed~♥
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA338YW-Fmk[/youtube]

all_white,

I am sorry you were so emotionally hurt by people yelling at you for being too trusting. I have been too trusting in the past. Just try to understand that your friends and family love you and they want to protect you- I think we all know that no matter how much we wish it wasn't true, there are some really mean people in the world who would take advantage of someone's trust and maybe even harm them. It doesn't mean that you should always believe that everyone is going to do horrible things, it just means that you need to think about how much trust it is logical to give to someone you know nothing about. I would hate to hear that you were harmed by someone. Please be careful!

Hmm... I'm not the only one who value the safety and warmth of childhood...

I think the key is to balance your feelings AND acts between being too paranoid and too naive. Economic efficiency. Too much worrying or not caring at all cost the highest in the long term. Trade off somewhere in between results in maximum profit.

Take advices from others, but not take them too literally, and try to be not anxious and worried. Do what may be covered by common sense. Decide yourself what you do, take responsibility for it. Be cautious with everybody. Don't think in black and white, think in gray-scale (light-gray, dark-gray).

Eventually, wiser, more mature thinking takes place.

Thanks for your well-meaning advice, but you're missing the whole point.



I cannot think in grey. And I do not possess this thing called "social common sense." I simply don't. I am completely blind to whatever it is. I have absolutely no idea what to do, and never will. Everyone else does things by insinct. I can't. I have to do things by learning the rules that appear to dictate this NT instinct, and living through situations one by one, and learning the rule applicable to each situation and remembering it for next time.

I've already learnt the rule that says: "do not trust perfect strangers with your belongings." I know that one now. I'll never forget it, because I was so hurt and frightened by the sudden force of the anger of those nice men suddenly turning mean and yelling at me that day.

Sorry. (I feel I'm in a wasp's nest right now.) Believe me, I'm a rather naive person inside, and on a variety of occasions I had been taken advantage of, or simply I missed opportunities. I used to have the strong tendency to leave things to others to do. Perhaps, I'm more dubious by my nature, and I was always keen on figuring out the rules.

I'm sorry you have been yelled at so badly. I understand. I wish I could give you some comfort.

With all my best intention, I would like to point out, that it's not good saying "never". Never say never. It is the beginning of gray-scale thinking. Also, instinct is not as abstract as you think. Since I'm a logical being, I'm also having hard time to listen to it, but it's there. It's you who are supposed to explore it. It's hard, I know. You have to be patient. Please don't be angry with me.

A week ago, my sisters friend added me to facebook, I was really nice and friendly to her, but I found out quickly that she was making up rumours about me. She kept saying, "He asked me out" and wouldn't stop saying that I asked her out and made out I was obsessive
She even said to my sister, "Your brother thinks I'm hot!" on Facebook.
I don't use words like, "hot"

She sends me text messages everyday and always tells me to get on Facebook, I don't like speaking to her anymore because she always makes up lies about me. She has a imaginary boyfriend and always denies it to everyone. I know she has one because she told me, so people don't think she is obsessive.

She didn't want me talking to my sister all about her, I didn't know why at first, but it was because of her acting so obsessively over me.
It hurts me because I never said anything, like "I love you" or, "You look hot" etc.
And somehow I asked her out? ):
If I did then why would she brag about it and not even say yes? People would find that suspicious.
Anyone who knows me knows that I would never say these things to a girl, especially a girl I just met.
I might say, "I love you" or something to people, but I don't mean it in that way.
I did indeed never said anything like that to her.

I wish she would stop making up lies about me to everyone, even her parents think that I'm obsessively in love with her. My Mum said that she's taking advantage over me because of the fact that I told her that I am nice and never get mad
I am not a object that can be used so she can make herself look good.
She is treating me so horribly, she is taking advantage of me and using me.

I feel like she controls my life
Now I've set her up in a different mini-feed chat, and have it turned off, and I rarely reply to her posts, but I still reply so she doesn't get angry with me and then say really bad things about me

I'm not angry with you, OJani! I was only explaining myself, that's all. I am sorry if I made you feel like you were in a wasp's nest. I don't understand why you would feel like that, but I obviously made you feel uncomfortable somehow, so I apologise.

I beg to differ on your theory about grey-scale thinking. I think it is a very good thing to know our own limitations. Saying never is not defeatist. It is realistic.

I am who I am. I can never change. To a certain extent we all change and adapt in numerous small ways as we go through life, but the major things about our personality will never change. I am tired of trying to distort my personality to be like the NTs, just to please them.

A person who says "I can never do this" before even giving it a try is defeatist and lazy, yes. But a person who says "I can never do this" having tried their utmost is just being a realist.

Either you can, or you can't. There is no grey area for people who "sort of" can. It really is black and white. Most things are.

That is my opinion.

hi all

nice discussion. i just thought id add my own thoughts

yes... i think i am naive when it comes to trust.
emotionally.... i think i have no warning radar to indicate danger... so i veer from one thing to another... in a car crash like fashion. often finding myself out of pocket, or in some way taken advantage of.

this leads me to believe that now... logically, at least, im quite defensive and wary.

regardless of that though... i STILL trust people. Its as if the knowledge is there, the understanding that things might not be as they seem, but... its stuck, its in the wrong part of my mind to be useful in day to day activities

hope others have similar experiences to this. i guess its a compartmentalisation of things in my mind, and some of them are filed in the wrong place
R

Ok, no need to apologize, really, but thanks, anyway.



You are welcome. Perhaps, I'm more in the idealist world, but this is the way I am. I really see the world around me would be better if more people would think this way. People I like, family, co-workers.


Yes, most things are. It's good to know where our limitations lie, I agree. I think in this case we have to leave things there and avoid giving off our opinion, and try to search for areas where we might have a chance to come off with something positive. Although, I wouldn't deny totally that If we tried hard enough, we could push those limits farther.

Hmmm I can be extremely trusting and naive in social situations, many people have told me so. I do admit I am not very socially smart. They keep telling me how "gullible" I am and I am confused and deny it, for a few reasons:

1. I am never surprised by a sudden change or revelation about a person who I have not known longer than a few months, sometimes even years or so (eg finding out they are a criminal or a manipulative person). Even though I never really change that much, I have grown up around people that continuously do. Therefore my "belief and trust" in some people is... not 100 percent set that way. I find this part hard to explain because I have not thought about explaining it for long.

2. Half of the time my "trust" Is just me acting. I know what people see as friendly and trusting person, and because I like to care about people, I give this to them. For example someone might start talking about an unusual thing about themselves. Perhaps exaggerated or entirely untrue. I still give them a credulous smile and expression and listen, no matter if I believe it to be true or not. I reckon some people actually believe the things they say. A few times people have led me on to believe they believe something that they actually don't, so I continue on with the believing act, and then they make fun of me for believing something so stupid, when I never actually did... Therefore when people tell me something I have learned to be wild/unusual, I become confused at what kind of expression to put on and will kind of stare at them with a blank or analytical face as I try hard to read if their face is a lying one or not, which they often see on me as a "you don't believe me" face. >.< The problem is, as I have learned to put into words after reading about aspergers, is I feel conversations should be about information exchange. I hate this whole idea that I have to be emotionally involved somehow. Especially since I am misread nearly all of the time.

3. People say you shouldn't talk to strangers. I don't go out of my way to, but people refuse to acknowledge that the actual participation in a conversation with someone you have never met before is not a problem. Though I've never met anyone shady IRL, I tend to avoid going places with them, just because I have learned this: If a stranger tries to convince you to make the assumption that you in some way owe him something (eg playing on either guilt or your desire to try and fit in to the norm), to try and glean information from you, or take you somewhere, THIS situation is one where you should refuse to do or go anywhere with said person.

Think of it like this: Even if a stranger is totally innocent and friendly, going with them only encourages them to be trusting of people THEY'VE never met, either. Just as you may be wary of them, they might be wary of you. Or at least they should be. Just because you know you are a person with good intentions, and even if you know they are too, most people aren't good at making those kinds of judgment calls, from my experience. Therefore you should do your best to help people be aware of this, and keep yourself aware of it too.

Being paranoid around strangers is good! But you can still be as nice to them and have wonderful conversations as you want.

Does that make any sense? Someone correct me if I am wrong... or ask for clarification if I have said something too vaguely.

That's exactly how I feel, too.

Before I read about AS, I had all these ideas and gut feelings about myself that I could never express in words, because, although I felt them, I didn't understand them. Now suddenly I understand myself. There is a sudden outpouring of explanations coming out from inside of me, and I want to explain everything, both to myself and to others.

To people like my mother, it seems odd that I am constantly trying to explain some new thing about myself that I'd never mentioned until now. She often looks puzzled and says: "are you sure you are like that? You've never mentioned it before." To people who cannot see inside my mind, it might look as though I just read a list of symptoms and am now faking them. But yes, I am like that. It's just that, until now, I could never put myself into words.

Sometime people can be nice to a fault. When your niceness ends up shooting you in the foot, it might be time to challenge that thinking. This girl is toxic and it would be in your best interest to simply sever all ties to her. Even the smallest response may seem like permission for her to continue. You don't have to be mean about it, I wouldn't even suggest confrontation. Simply leaving her posts unanswered might be the best strategy. She can be as mad as she likes and she may say awful things but most rational people will realize that she's off her rocker.

And I would fill your sister in on the details about this girl as they pertain to you. Make sure she has your side of the story in case this nutjob does try to slander you. Your sister unwittingly got you into this situation, it would be fair to ask her to have your back in regards to this friend of hers.

I agree that it would be nice to not constantly worry about other people doing wrong to you. I hate those chain letters that go around talking about new ways criminals use to get to you. It makes people paranoid of everyone, when I believe the majority of people are not bad.

For us, it's perhaps that we can't pick up on clues regarding whether someone is sincere or nice or not. I know that myself, if someone talks nicely to me, I take for granted that they are nice, and I'm surprised if later I somehow find out that it was an act. I always give the benefit of the doubt, even though I know from experience that it's not always deserved. If someone asks me something, I tell them the answer without thinking. Then later sometimes I wonder why I would give that information out when I know it could be used against me.

On the other hand, I can be awfully paranoid about people I don't know or don't know very well. I am adamant about not sharing any personal info online, no matter how close I feel to a person, and I never leave windows open or doors unlocked.