People not realizing the full extent of your difficulties.

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On the main topic of this thread, at the moment all I can say is: "Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!" I might try to be more articulate later, but sometime one can have just too much to say on a subject, and the result is silence.

Apropos of the bit I just quoted:

It's excruciatingly embarrassing to admit this (I was so clueless at the time, and clueless as to how clueless I was, and I couldn't understand why people laughed at me, or said I was "mad", or were offended and shunned me), but once, when I was at university studying (or not studying! - another story) mathematics in the early 1970s, I actually made a lapel badge for myself, which read something like "Don't take me as I am!", and I actually went around wearing it.

Will the ground now open up and swallow me, please?

That might work if your eccentricities aren't too extreme. Mine are ... extreme! If I were to do what you suggest, I would go around (a) wearing skirts (although I'm a balding, unattractive, 59-year-old man), (b) talking about psychological and philosophical things all the time, with a complete disregard for conventions as to what is and is not sayable in society.

Perhaps I should dress up as Socrates.

(Sorry if I'm butting in too much. I meant to "lurk" longer ...)

Actually, that sounds fairly close to what I meant. I don't wear women's clothing, but I also do not go out of my way to appear masculine. I am sometimes mistaken for gay for that reason, but it doesn't bother me. I've also been known to conduct impromptu psychological experiments with people around me. It's not exactly statistically meaningful to ask a question of every customer who comes through my register, but the results can be interesting.



At least then you'd get to wear that dress you were talking about earlier.

Yes, that's what I meant. I sometimes very seriously wonder if I am a reincarnation of someone who lived in Ancient Greece, was deeply interested in mathematics and philosophy, wore skirts as a matter of course, and didn't think there was anything wrong with homosexuality. I find the modern world and Judaeo-Christian culture in general deeply baffling.

I'm sorry, I really am now dragging (no pun intended) this thread off course, and it's an important topic, so that is annoying of me.

Talking too much or too little (or not at all) is what I did a lot during my school years. People don't see noticeable problems upon first glance, either. But the few that "stick with me" find out how socially awkward I am; that is when I ask them to point out social blunders if I commit any. It's for this very reason that I've been able to "get better" social skills.

You sure it was an aspie? It seems really odd for an aspie to say such a thing…

I don’t control many of my behaviours, but I try not to be too eccentric, especially in terms of my clothing & appearance. I try to keep my weirdness factor to a minimum just because many people I meet nowadays could be my future employers for all I know. In situations I don’t meet those people, I don’t want to change my appearance drastically because, well, I don’t like change and I get habituated to certain ways of being. So I think that when you try to make your oddities more intentional, it can be detrimental in other ways, such as repulsing people that can be potentially beneficial to you in the long run.

I have a friend who did this for me when we were hanging out with an NT crowd. His help was crucial because when I faced these people without his help, I epicly FAILED at interacting with them and my attempts at interaction with them was stressing me out A LOT. I didn’t disclose anything about my problems to these people just because I wanted to run a bit of an experiment to see how well I would be able to get by without them knowing anything about me, so the above scenario of people overestimating my abilities does not apply to them. It’s my past counsellor, however, who seems to have thought that I was more capable than I really am. As a result, I think, she didn’t tell me a lot of things I would have benefited from. She did know that I have AS from the start (that’s why I had her) but I think that she, as many other people, saw my AS as “really mild” because of my articulateness.

I have found that with my other condition, which is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, people are more accepting when they think I am just lazy than when I tell them I can't do something because I have CFS. This doesn't apply to people I am close to, who have seen my difficulty first hand, but to random people, like the ones I had to work on projects with (mainly volunteering). The were actually angry and contemptuous when I told them I had CFS. I have found it's better to hide one's condition, even at the risk of appearing rude or incompetent, unfortunately.

With AS, I have just learned to be very quiet. My main focus is on trying to stay polite, and just say what needs to be said for that purpose. I have learned to employ niceties like talking about the weather and always remembering to thank people for their time, things like that. I don't generally have trouble with saying too much, it's usually the opposite for me: I don't really know what to say.

THIS!! !

I can play act with great alacrity. But once I get to the end of the script I all falls apart.

I just had this today with my therapist... she complimented my articulateness and that I sound like a intellegent woman. In a controlled setting, talking about myself I'm betting I look like I got it all together. And that's the goal, right? To look like you have it together. I got that. I'm not sure if she noticed that I was looking at her shoulder for most of the time. I know, about 1/2 hour in I realized it and made the eye contact effort. But she's trying hard to reassure me that I'm 'normal'.

When I'm left alone with cold hard reality is when it all crashes back to earth.

If people seem sceptical, I would try to acknowledge that and joke about how they should have seen you as a kid, but you are more aware now. I mean acknowledge that there is a reason you are not some stereotype and that work goes into that. Besides I would not want anyone to know the full extend of my difficulties, it makes it easier for them to take advantage.

I had a weird discussion with my husband's best friend at the weekend. I think he's NT, but he's been on meds a few times for panic attacks, as he's shy and gets nervous when he has to speak out at work, etc. Anyway, he's going to acting classes to help with his confidence/ assertiveness and has been looking at starting a new career. I suggested that he could maybe get some work as a film/TV extra. He said that he didn't have the confidence for that yet. But, he said that he could see me doing something like that. He said that I come across as a really confident and self-assured person. I was stunned, but he was deadly serious. The only thing I could think of to say was that it must be my great acting skills that made me appear like that.

The truth is that I was an extrovert young child then became extremely shy when I was 7 (I think when I realised I was being laughed at). I only managed to overcome it to some extent when my daughter was born and I forced myself into social situations that I'd never have contemplated before. He knew me during my painfully shy days and it wasn't obvious to him that I was shy - what's going on? Am I just a great actress or is there something blocking my internal self getting out? Maybe it's because I can talk and I mean TALK (but only to 3 others, absolute max).

How could anyone guess that I have particular difficulties if they can't even see the real me?

Yes I am sure because he was diagnosed he said. I thought it was odd too and very strange as well. But maybe he doesn't have that trait or he got over it and forgot all about what it's like?

After all aspies can be just as ignorant about their own condition because they haven't experienced that symptom nor never had that symptom. Just my speculation there why he did it.

I have very similar issues. Alas, I have no advice to offer. I wish there was a way to not feel offended when I tell someone about my AS and associated difficulties, only to have them say "But you seem so normal, it can't be that bad!"

Take it as a compliment. At least you look so normal, they won't try and screw you over or think you're stupid or poke fun at you nor treat you bad. Also they aren't so judgmental and anything they see is normal and they aren't so narrow about the word. What is normal anyway?


That's how I see it anyway so I have never taken offense to it. I saw it as a good thing.

Passing for someone else's conception of 'normal' has it's drawbacks though. They tend to expect more of me than I can actually deliver, because they think I'm just being hard on myself.

It's interesting how different skill sets become so varied in a person when they are on the spectrum. The struggle here is that you are incredibly bright, so people assume that you will also have good social skills. People expect both intelligence and social skills to go hand in hand for some reason. As well, the difficulties you have are social, and therefore not skills that most people expect others to have difficulties with...although this attitude is slightly changing with awareness of AS.

I know that you miss a lot of emotional nuances in situations, and struggle with considering how others will react to something you say or do. However, you seem to have a good idea of the parts of socialization that you could improve upon, the next and more challenging part is to apply these skills into the context of different social situations. As a start, and if you're willing to, I could give you some specific examples of how some things you've done in a social context with myself could be improved. Although it could be a little awkward, if you feel that this will help you find some answers, I'd be willing to share them.

As for how you could inform people beforehand and avoid potential misunderstandings, try to be as clear as possible about what it is you struggle with. Explain to them that you have difficulty with predicting how others will react to your behaviour, and to try not to take things personally. As well, try to implicitly suggest that the person be a social coach of sorts, by insisting that if you offend them unintentionally, that they should say why and specifically refer to how it made them feel.

I'm very surprised at the situation involving your friend, though. Surely, you would expect him, of all professors, to be more informed of how her AS may manifest in the classroom setting, and to be open-minded, rather than dismissive of her diagnosis.