"It's not possible to survive and think that way!"

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Xinro
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06 Jun 2011, 12:36 pm

... Then how am I still alive and talking to you?

A friend of mine told me today that it's not possible to think in absolutes the way I do and continue to survive and essentially told me that I was faking it as an excuse for messing up. I often think in absolutes and don't think to ask questions about specifics of a task. If specifics aren't given, I don't imply them and I either mess up what I'm doing or get very confused and anxious and sometimes am unable to ask because I feel stupid for not knowing. Recently I totally screwed over a social task and this friend is convinced that it's the end of the world because I bungled it and have potentially hurt his social standing (nothing has happened yet, he's just convinced it is going to happen).

I don't understand where NTs get off saying things like this. I'm alive and this is the way I think. The friend has been warned over and over and over and over again to give me specifics on a task, but he doesn't. I don't care if he doesn't "believe" I think the way I do. The fact is that I do think this way and it's not going to change based on your belief or lack therefore of. It makes me half tempted to become more rigid in the way I think just to punish him for saying that.

Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?



Verdandi
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06 Jun 2011, 12:45 pm

"It's not possible to survive and think that way" sounds like a fairly absolute statement. Perhaps your friend would do better with a moderate perspective, that different people have different ways of thinking.



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06 Jun 2011, 12:59 pm

I got crap from my old boss because I don't think he also believed it too that I was unable to pick up on things he didn't say by reading between the lines and he expected me to use common sense and thought I wasn't using it. He also pulled the "You're very smart" card so he didn't think I could be that stupid. I guess I should take that as a compliment.

But I did ask questions because I couldn't understand or remember how to do it or where an item was. They kept moving stuff around and I was still expected to find it without being told where it is. I would ever try and look for it if it wasn't in that spot so I try and look around that area too if it wasn't there. I felt even though I tried harder, I still screwed up except it was even more.

But I have noticed people seem to expect you to ask questions but how can you ask questions if you don't know what you were supposed to ask? If you think you understand something, why would it occur to even ask? Like if I am shown what to do, if I understand it, how would I even know what to ask? How would I even know I misunderstood something? By the time I know, it's already happened because the person tells me making himself more clear and then I realize I messed up.


But working for a local company that is for people with disabilities, it's not like this. They just assume there was a miss communication and they weren't clear enough so they correct it by making it more clear. I once had to do a job that was someone else's because she was away and I thought I understood but the next day the boss was telling me there was a miss communication and he maybe wasn't clear enough. He told me I needed to get all the trash and I thought he told me I didn't need to do it because someone else got it. At my old job, the office clerk be telling me I didn't listen if I screwed up like that. People just assume I don't listen when I don't understand something.



wavefreak58
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06 Jun 2011, 1:07 pm

Xinro wrote:
A friend of mine told me today that it's not possible to think in absolutes the way I do and continue to survive


You may want to point out to your friend that for him to say "it is not possible" is an absolute. It is the logical equivalent to for all X there is no Y.

I'm betting that pointing out his own ability to invoke absolutes will not in anyway convince him of the absurdity of his position.


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mv
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06 Jun 2011, 1:10 pm

Xinro wrote:
A friend of mine told me today that it's not possible to think in absolutes the way I do ...

Recently I totally screwed over a social task and this friend is convinced that it's the end of the world because I bungled it and have potentially hurt his social standing (nothing has happened yet, he's just convinced it is going to happen).


Pot, meet kettle...



marshall
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06 Jun 2011, 1:25 pm

League_Girl wrote:
But I did ask questions because I couldn't understand or remember how to do it or where an item was. They kept moving stuff around and I was still expected to find it without being told where it is. I would ever try and look for it if it wasn't in that spot so I try and look around that area too if it wasn't there. I felt even though I tried harder, I still screwed up except it was even more.

But I have noticed people seem to expect you to ask questions but how can you ask questions if you don't know what you were supposed to ask? If you think you understand something, why would it occur to even ask? Like if I am shown what to do, if I understand it, how would I even know what to ask? How would I even know I misunderstood something? By the time I know, it's already happened because the person tells me making himself more clear and then I realize I messed up.

But working for a local company that is for people with disabilities, it's not like this. They just assume there was a miss communication and they weren't clear enough so they correct it by making it more clear. I once had to do a job that was someone else's because she was away and I thought I understood but the next day the boss was telling me there was a miss communication and he maybe wasn't clear enough. He told me I needed to get all the trash and I thought he told me I didn't need to do it because someone else got it. At my old job, the office clerk be telling me I didn't listen if I screwed up like that. People just assume I don't listen when I don't understand something.


That sounds like classic NT cluelessness. Always blaming the receiver when there is a lack of clear communication. They are also not used to people who may have a different train of thought and thus approach something differently than what they think a "normal" or "common sense" approach would be. I remember having this experience a lot in school. It often turned out I was the only one to do something differently, which wasn't deliberate at all. I'm unintentionally creative.



WorldsEdge
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06 Jun 2011, 2:24 pm

Xinro wrote:
Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?


My wife sent me to the grocery store this morning. On the list was a request for three single-serving containers of "Vanilla-Honey" yogurt, made by a certain company. I could find the vanilla flavor, and I could find the honey flavor. But I couldn't find any "vanilla-honey" flavor. After about ten minutes of walking back and forth and not finding any I bought two honey flavored and one vanilla flavored container, fully expecting to get yelled at when I got home.

I did get yelled at, but not for what I thought I was going to get in trouble for doing or not doing. I had actually gotten her what she wanted, HOWEVER, The dash ("-") between the two flavors was meant to mean OR and not one specific flavor, and I was supposed to have known this, somehow. And if I interpreted her tone correctly, she also seemed to be implying that anyone else would've picked up on that pretty much instantly. Well, not me. :( (And FWIW, the yelling at was over me spending ten minutes doing this.)

Granted the above is a silly example, but when variations on this tune happen 3, 4, 5, 10 times a day it seems to be a bit like Chinese water torture performed on our relationship.


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06 Jun 2011, 2:34 pm

WorldsEdge wrote:
Xinro wrote:
Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?


My wife sent me to the grocery store this morning. On the list was a request for three single-serving containers of "Vanilla-Honey" yogurt, made by a certain company. I could find the vanilla flavor, and I could find the honey flavor. But I couldn't find any "vanilla-honey" flavor. After about ten minutes of walking back and forth and not finding any I bought two honey flavored and one vanilla flavored container, fully expecting to get yelled at when I got home.

I did get yelled at, but not for what I thought I was going to get in trouble for doing or not doing. I had actually gotten her what she wanted, HOWEVER, The dash ("-") between the two flavors was meant to mean OR and not one specific flavor, and I was supposed to have known this, somehow. And if I interpreted her tone correctly, she also seemed to be implying that anyone else would've picked up on that pretty much instantly. Well, not me. :( (And FWIW, the yelling at was over me spending ten minutes doing this.)

Granted the above is a silly example, but when variations on this tune happen 3, 4, 5, 10 times a day it seems to be a bit like Chinese water torture performed on our relationship.


FWIW - I would have looked for Vanilla Honey not Vanilla or Honey.

:roll:


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Xinro
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06 Jun 2011, 2:38 pm

WorldsEdge wrote:
Xinro wrote:
Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?


My wife sent me to the grocery store this morning. On the list was a request for three single-serving containers of "Vanilla-Honey" yogurt, made by a certain company. I could find the vanilla flavor, and I could find the honey flavor. But I couldn't find any "vanilla-honey" flavor. After about ten minutes of walking back and forth and not finding any I bought two honey flavored and one vanilla flavored container, fully expecting to get yelled at when I got home.

I did get yelled at, but not for what I thought I was going to get in trouble for doing or not doing. I had actually gotten her what she wanted, HOWEVER, The dash ("-") between the two flavors was meant to mean OR and not one specific flavor, and I was supposed to have known this, somehow. And if I interpreted her tone correctly, she also seemed to be implying that anyone else would've picked up on that pretty much instantly. Well, not me. :( (And FWIW, the yelling at was over me spending ten minutes doing this.)

Granted the above is a silly example, but when variations on this tune happen 3, 4, 5, 10 times a day it seems to be a bit like Chinese water torture performed on our relationship.

I would have just left emptyhanded or called them to clarify what they wanted. These things are constant and I agree on the water torture comment - it gets really annoying when people just don't get exactly how clear they have to be!



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06 Jun 2011, 3:28 pm

Wow I would have done the same too. Look for vanilla honey flavor and then buy them both thinking they can both be used at once because they didn't have vanilla honey flavor. Then explain when I got home they didn't have that so I had to get both.

I might have bought three each making that I bought six total or just take out my cell phone and call asking what does he mean by three single containers. Like buy three of them?


Luckily I don't get this issue simply because people around me understand, my family and husband.



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06 Jun 2011, 3:58 pm

lol i get bull like this but i have learned to deal with it.



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06 Jun 2011, 4:06 pm

I love how some people think that if you don't do things (thinking) their way, it's all wrong. I've lived around this kind of narrow train of thought all my life. It's stupid. People just need to learn to allow for differences in thought process. Who cares if we're a little different? It's like realizing we all come in a rainbow hue of beiges & browns in color. We also speak different dialects & accents. So why can people see & hear the obvious, but not be able to translate it to the thought process?


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League_Girl
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06 Jun 2011, 6:24 pm

tomboy4good wrote:
I love how some people think that if you don't do things (thinking) their way, it's all wrong. I've lived around this kind of narrow train of thought all my life. It's stupid. People just need to learn to allow for differences in thought process. Who cares if we're a little different? It's like realizing we all come in a rainbow hue of beiges & browns in color. We also speak different dialects & accents. So why can people see & hear the obvious, but not be able to translate it to the thought process?


Isn't it ironic how it's an aspie thing to think our way is the right way but yet NTs are the same way too except for that comes to thinking?
It's even like that in math. "No no that is not how you do the problem" even though you got the right answer. But there is only one way to do the problem or else it's wrong. To me that is stupid.

I am still surprised how people do things because I never knew there was another way of doing it.

Perhaps this should be a lesson for aspies too. Accept that other people do things differently and it's not wrong. Just like NTs should accept we don't think their way but it's not wrong.



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06 Jun 2011, 6:36 pm

WorldsEdge wrote:
Xinro wrote:
Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?


My wife sent me to the grocery store this morning. On the list was a request for three single-serving containers of "Vanilla-Honey" yogurt, made by a certain company. I could find the vanilla flavor, and I could find the honey flavor. But I couldn't find any "vanilla-honey" flavor. After about ten minutes of walking back and forth and not finding any I bought two honey flavored and one vanilla flavored container, fully expecting to get yelled at when I got home.

I did get yelled at, but not for what I thought I was going to get in trouble for doing or not doing. I had actually gotten her what she wanted, HOWEVER, The dash ("-") between the two flavors was meant to mean OR and not one specific flavor, and I was supposed to have known this, somehow. And if I interpreted her tone correctly, she also seemed to be implying that anyone else would've picked up on that pretty much instantly. Well, not me. :( (And FWIW, the yelling at was over me spending ten minutes doing this.)

Granted the above is a silly example, but when variations on this tune happen 3, 4, 5, 10 times a day it seems to be a bit like Chinese water torture performed on our relationship.


LOL - men of all neurological types are notorious for using the cell phone, at the store, in front of the shelf and saying - 'I see honey and I see vanilla but not honey vanilla. ... Oh, okay, three honey...' The 'dash' does have a specific connotation and two little letters are not so much to ask... If she puts you in the posotion to guess what she means, it is just that - guessing. It has nothing to do with intelligence or being difficult... it has everything to do with her having expectations and not having them met to her specification. You inability to 'read' her isn't an insult and in no way reflects a lack of care, concern or connection. yoyu speak locigc-ese, she speaks emotion-ese. Stuff can get lost in translation. If using the word 'or' would have saved you the 10 minutes of debate time, is it so much to ask for her to use it now that she knows you need that clarification?



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06 Jun 2011, 6:46 pm

Quote:
I did get yelled at, but not for what I thought I was going to get in trouble for doing or not doing. I had actually gotten her what she wanted, HOWEVER, The dash ("-") between the two flavors was meant to mean OR and not one specific flavor, and I was supposed to have known this, somehow. And if I interpreted her tone correctly, she also seemed to be implying that anyone else would've picked up on that pretty much instantly. Well, not me. Sad (And FWIW, the yelling at was over me spending ten minutes doing this.)


How are you supposed to know that a dash means OR? Everyone knows that OR is best represented by a slash / or the word "or". :lol:


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06 Jun 2011, 6:53 pm

Xinro wrote:
... Then how am I still alive and talking to you?

A friend of mine told me today that it's not possible to think in absolutes the way I do and continue to survive and essentially told me that I was faking it as an excuse for messing up. I often think in absolutes and don't think to ask questions about specifics of a task. If specifics aren't given, I don't imply them and I either mess up what I'm doing or get very confused and anxious and sometimes am unable to ask because I feel stupid for not knowing. Recently I totally screwed over a social task and this friend is convinced that it's the end of the world because I bungled it and have potentially hurt his social standing (nothing has happened yet, he's just convinced it is going to happen).

I don't understand where NTs get off saying things like this. I'm alive and this is the way I think. The friend has been warned over and over and over and over again to give me specifics on a task, but he doesn't. I don't care if he doesn't "believe" I think the way I do. The fact is that I do think this way and it's not going to change based on your belief or lack therefore of. It makes me half tempted to become more rigid in the way I think just to punish him for saying that.

Anyone else get bull like this from NTs?


It's not possible for people to live like a bag of nerves and neuroses about irrelevent things like a few misspoken words but hell, they've been doing it for eons...

Bias is pervasive. The inability to see another perspective is the sign of an inflexible mind. Don't punish him for his naivety - he can't help it. But it couldn't hurt to point out the 'pot meet kettle' analogy either.