What are the persenteges of Neuro-cognitive in autism?

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AlexWelshman
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28 Jun 2011, 4:08 pm

You're probably thinking something along the lines of, "What in the whole world is he going on about?" But I'll try to explain it to you as best as I can.
On Wikipedia, I've found what you can see bellow: I want to know what the percentages are of IQ's in autism. Before you tell me, I know IQ's aren't accuate in autism, but I'm just genrually interested to know. If you know this, please let me know! I've looked on the web & can't find anything about it.
5%: IQ above 85 (average to low average intelligence)
27%: IQ 70 – 85 (borderline intellectual functioning)
39%: IQ 50 – 70 (mild intellectual disability)
27%: IQ 35 – 50 (moderate intellectual disability)
1%: IQ 20 – 35 (severe intellectual disability)
<1%: IQ <20 (profound intellectual disability)



AlexWelshman
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28 Jun 2011, 4:10 pm

AlexWelshman wrote:
You're probably thinking something along the lines of, "What in the whole world is he going on about?" But I'll try to explain it to you as best as I can.
On Wikipedia, I've found what you can see bellow: I want to know what the percentages are of IQ's in autism. Before you tell me, I know IQ's aren't accuate in autism, but I'm just genrually interested to know. If you know this, please let me know! I've looked on the web & can't find anything about it.
5%: IQ above 85 (average to low average intelligence)
27%: IQ 70 – 85 (borderline intellectual functioning)
39%: IQ 50 – 70 (mild intellectual disability)
27%: IQ 35 – 50 (moderate intellectual disability)
1%: IQ 20 – 35 (severe intellectual disability)
<1%: IQ <20 (profound intellectual disability)
BTW, those things I found on Wikipedia weren't about autism, they were about a condirtion called 'Prader Willi Syndrome' so please don't say, "You've got them there!".



wavefreak58
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28 Jun 2011, 4:12 pm

what about everything above 85? There is a huge difference in someone with an IQ of 85 and one of 140.


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oddone
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28 Jun 2011, 4:13 pm

Is the distribution above for the neurotypical population?

In general autistics are more intelligent than neurotypicals, however IQ scores are not very useful for neurotypicals and are even less use for autistics.



AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 5:35 am

oddone wrote:
Is the distribution above for the neurotypical population?

In general autistics are more intelligent than neurotypicals, however IQ scores are not very useful for neurotypicals and are even less use for autistics.
The descriptian above is for people with a condition called Prarder Willi Syndrome.



wavefreak58
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29 Jun 2011, 9:02 am

AlexWelshman wrote:
oddone wrote:
Is the distribution above for the neurotypical population?

In general autistics are more intelligent than neurotypicals, however IQ scores are not very useful for neurotypicals and are even less use for autistics.
The descriptian above is for people with a condition called Prarder Willi Syndrome.


I guess I don't understand the point of your question. What precisely are you asking?


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AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 9:32 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
oddone wrote:
Is the distribution above for the neurotypical population?

In general autistics are more intelligent than neurotypicals, however IQ scores are not very useful for neurotypicals and are even less use for autistics.
The descriptian above is for people with a condition called Prarder Willi Syndrome.


I guess I don't understand the point of your question. What precisely are you asking?

I'm no good at explaining things! This bellow is the persdentages of IQ's of people with PWS
5%: IQ above 85 (average to low average intelligence)
27%: IQ 70 – 85 (borderline intellectual functioning)
39%: IQ 50 – 70 (mild intellectual disability)
27%: IQ 35 – 50 (moderate intellectual disability)
1%: IQ 20 – 35 (severe intellectual disability)
<1%: IQ <20 (profound intellectual disability)

I want to know what the persentage are in IQ of people with autism. Now do you get the idea?



Mummy_of_Peanut
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29 Jun 2011, 9:48 am

Could your question be asked in this way:
Is the IQ distribution for NTs and autistics similar?
For example - would both have a typical bell shaped curve?
I don't know the answer to this, but my suspicion is that you'd get a flattened bell curve, lower in the middle, higher at the extremities and extending further.



Janissy
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29 Jun 2011, 9:53 am

I couldn't find anything with a table just exactly like the one you have for PWS. I found this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991056/

where the authors attempt to divide autism up into groups by IQ score in the hopes of finding traits clustering together. Their results are patchy and inconclusive beyond finding that a really low IQ score often correlates with a harder time functioning.

and this:

http://www.autisable.com/736822986/auti ... the-facts/

where the authors say that conclusions about IQ distribution and autism will depend on which test you use- that if you use one test then the majority of people on the autism spectrum score in the mentally ret*d range and if you use another test then the results are the familiar bell curve of the general population.

Notice that in this second link, the authors conclude that current IQ testing methods for autistic people are so unreliable that it isn't currently possible to make the sort of table you are looking for. But they hope that in the future, more reliable methods will be found and they guess that probably the distribution will be quite similar to the general population. In sum, their conclusion is that autism doesn't really have any effect on intelligence, but definately has an effect on IQ testing.

Make of that what you will.



AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 10:06 am

Janissy wrote:
I couldn't find anything with a table just exactly like the one you have for PWS. I found this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991056/

where the authors attempt to divide autism up into groups by IQ score in the hopes of finding traits clustering together. Their results are patchy and inconclusive beyond finding that a really low IQ score often correlates with a harder time functioning.

and this:

http://www.autisable.com/736822986/auti ... the-facts/

where the authors say that conclusions about IQ distribution and autism will depend on which test you use- that if you use one test then the majority of people on the autism spectrum score in the mentally ret*d range and if you use another test then the results are the familiar bell curve of the general population.

Notice that in this second link, the authors conclude that current IQ testing methods for autistic people are so unreliable that it isn't currently possible to make the sort of table you are looking for. But they hope that in the future, more reliable methods will be found and they guess that probably the distribution will be quite similar to the general population. In sum, their conclusion is that autism doesn't really have any effect on intelligence, but definately has an effect on IQ testing.

Make of that what you will.
Thanks for your help.



AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 10:06 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Could your question be asked in this way:
Is the IQ distribution for NTs and autistics similar?
For example - would both have a typical bell shaped curve?
I don't know the answer to this, but my suspicion is that you'd get a flattened bell curve, lower in the middle, higher at the extremities and extending further.
No, that isn't what I meant.



Mummy_of_Peanut
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29 Jun 2011, 10:11 am

AlexWelshman wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Could your question be asked in this way:
Is the IQ distribution for NTs and autistics similar?
For example - would both have a typical bell shaped curve?
I don't know the answer to this, but my suspicion is that you'd get a flattened bell curve, lower in the middle, higher at the extremities and extending further.
No, that isn't what I meant.


Sorry, I did try.



AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 10:20 am

Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
AlexWelshman wrote:
Mummy_of_Peanut wrote:
Could your question be asked in this way:
Is the IQ distribution for NTs and autistics similar?
For example - would both have a typical bell shaped curve?
I don't know the answer to this, but my suspicion is that you'd get a flattened bell curve, lower in the middle, higher at the extremities and extending further.
No, that isn't what I meant.


Sorry, I did try.
Naa, it's alright. I'm just really bad at explaining things :( A bit of my ASD. Even though I have full language, I sometimes struggle to get my words across.



wavefreak58
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29 Jun 2011, 10:21 am

The more I learn about autism the more suspicious I become of the applicability of standard IQ tests.

I remember being tested about 30 years ago and during the test I had to give similarities between things. So dog and cat? Both have fur. Cars and boats? Both move people. One question was water and air. My brain locked up and I swear I couldn't think of anything. Actually, what came to mind was instant but I couldn't verbalize it. After probably 30 seconds of ums and confusion, I finally blurted out "they both obey the same equations of fluid dynamics". I think I even started to explain that air was compressible so it wasn't exactly then same. The psychologist was visibly taken aback. I flipped him out a few times during the test. But autism was not a diagnosis applied to adults back then. I'll bet he was scratching his head over me.

The point is, that the entire test was probing a part of me (standard behaviors) that wasn't relevant to where my thoughts reside. It's like that one question managed to penetrate to another layer.

I've read so many posts here that corroborate these types of experiences. IQ tests are only a snap shot of a particular set of abilities relative to the population at large. They are useful predictors of some things, but utterly useless at others.

Autism is a neurological variant. It is illogical to expect a test designed for "normal" neurology would be fully valid on a variant.


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guywithAS
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29 Jun 2011, 10:23 am

i believe our emotional brain is slower to develop in autism, but the logical brain is forced to develop faster. so a lot of us have smart logical brains.

but i also believe we can make our emotional brain develop over time too. thats why autism is a developmental disorder.



AlexWelshman
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29 Jun 2011, 10:25 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
The more I learn about autism the more suspicious I become of the applicability of standard IQ tests.

I remember being tested about 30 years ago and during the test I had to give similarities between things. So dog and cat? Both have fur. Cars and boats? Both move people. One question was water and air. My brain locked up and I swear I couldn't think of anything. Actually, what came to mind was instant but I couldn't verbalize it. After probably 30 seconds of ums and confusion, I finally blurted out "they both obey the same equations of fluid dynamics". I think I even started to explain that air was compressible so it wasn't exactly then same. The psychologist was visibly taken aback. I flipped him out a few times during the test. But autism was not a diagnosis applied to adults back then. I'll bet he was scratching his head over me.

The point is, that the entire test was probing a part of me (standard behaviors) that wasn't relevant to where my thoughts reside. It's like that one question managed to penetrate to another layer.

I've read so many posts here that corroborate these types of experiences. IQ tests are only a snap shot of a particular set of abilities relative to the population at large. They are useful predictors of some things, but utterly useless at others.

Autism is a neurological variant. It is illogical to expect a test designed for "normal" neurology would be fully valid on a variant.
I agree, but I'm just curious to know what the answwer to my bquestion is; that's all. I know IQ's autism aren't a good convination. Did I not say that further above?