Can you talk to me about your Aspergers Child please?

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Something is really up with my little boy. He has just been excluded from school for the second time this year and I am at my wits end. I am willing to pay privately to have him assessed if Im more certain of what it is we are dealing with. Im thinking Aspergers so was wondering if you could talk to me about your Aspie child to see if I can relate? He also shows traits of ODD, ADD and SPD.

Thanks in advance

Well, I'm 14 and I have Asperger's.

That's a huge request Clare. Perhaps you can read through some of the detailed posts in the Parent's forum and better define what you are and aren't seeing. There are lots of personal accounts of behavior and issues there.

The one thing that defines autism is that no two cases are alike - it's why it is a 'spectrum'. Measuring your child against someone elses experiences may not give you a clear picture.

Definitely. The autism spectrum is just plain huge, and we on it are very diverse. I would point you to the parents' forum. Also useful might be the diagnostic criteria:

This is Autistic Disorder from the DSM. You can see how it's broken into sections. How they diagnose autism is that they look at each section (I, II, III). If all three apply, then you can make a diagnosis. So for section I to apply, you have to have six or more total traits, with two of them from section A and one from B and C (plus three others). Then you have to fulfill criterion II by having a delay in one of those areas. III is there because Rett's and CDD take precedence (both are quite rare, and involve losing skills abruptly after gaining them; Rett's has a specific mutation--if you suspect Asperger's, I doubt they apply).

The logic here is silly. If you have an "issue" then go find out what it is. If I had a fever, I would not be asking random people on the internet to help me assess my fever before I paid a professional to do it. If you suspect this could be Assperger's then make sure you go find someone in your area how can assess that along with other things.

Heh, yeah

I think people don't really come here expecting diagnosis--it's more like they come here trying to figure out whether their suspicions are just their imagination or whether it makes sense to ask a doctor about it. Testing the waters, so to speak. Making sure they're not hypochondriacs, I guess.

So what does he have going on that you're curious about? I think we all need some examples to work with. Plenty of people here wil lbe glad to work with you but we need something to work with. If he's borderline, what behaviors have put him there?

(And kfisherx wasn't being rude just... factual. In other words - blunt. It is an Aspie trait. Just reminding you which waters you are currently wading in. )

Ok, I understand and Im sorry for the accusation of rudeness.

So Harvey is 6, the things that have made us look at Aspergers are these:-

He has sensory issues, he enjoys rocking, spinning, jumping and chewing! He licks/eats things that are not edible. He likes to hang upside down and loves to be help tightly and enjoys pressure. Was seen yesterday with a huge soaking wet towel over his head that he'd put in the paddling pool, he looked content!

His social skills arent really that great although he does like to 'play' with others and he is very liked. When he 'plays' he likes to control the play, with his little brother it is to the extent of which way the lego man's head faces. With his friends he tries the same but they wont always let him be so controlling, he will push it as far as he can though.

He does some inappropriate stuff socially, yesterday he went up to a lady who he kind of knows (A mum at school) and tried to tickle her under the arm with some long grass he'd picked! She wasnt overly impressed!

He takes things quite literally, I said I had pins and needles and he wanted to see and someone told him it was raining cats and dogs and he was cross that they'd lied.

He doesnt have huge obsessions but what he plays with is limited to 4 things, Lego, Playmobil, chess and dinosaurs. He mostly plays with Lego though and has done for a long, long time. He's very particular about the way the lego men are, what weapons, what way they face etc. He knows ALOT about dinosaurs and enjoys learning about them, he retains the facts very well!

He has an amazing way of quoting films and remember song lyrics (Not sure if thats relevant or not)

One thing that causes us all alot of stress is he has images in his head of what things are going to be like and if they arent he gets very disapointed and usually cries or gets angry. So for example he wanted a hot dog from the BBQ the other day and he got upset that the sauce wasnt in a zig zag shape! Birthday's are always hard as are parcels in the post. A visit to soft play was another one as he thought we were going to a different one than we turned up at. One of the hardest days we had with him was at a wedding, he was a page boy and we had discussed walking behide the bride ALOT, tried to prepare him the best we could, I stood with him for 15 minutes waiting for the bride to come and when she did she asked him to go on in, she had decided she just wanted it to be her and her dad. The whole day was a nightmare after that


So thats all I can think of right now. The things that make me wonder if its not Aspergers is he is very socialable, even if it is on his terms most of the time! And the fact that his language is very good and from what Ive heard they are two main difficulties with Aspie children

Thank you so much for reading

From your descriptions, I would say an autism spectrum disorder is quite possible.

Why was he not allowed into school?

What are is language skills like?

The members in the Parenting Forum will be able to help you. A lot of us are rebels.

CokneyRebel .. sometimes I wish forums had a "like" button :) love the comment it's so true

Hi Clare as has already been said the difference between one person and another can be huge, and I agree, it does sound like your son could be on the spectrum, I will try and profile my youngest sons behavior (Myself and my 2 boys all have aspergers)

My youngest son Reggie is also 6

As a baby he progressed at a normal or advanced level in all areas, however he cried a lot, was a fussy eater and would not be put down unless he was wrapped tight

He could sight read 50+ words, recognise numbers and colours, and speak full sentances by his second birthday

When he started pre school he was uninterested in other kids, now he shows some interest but only if they will conform to his conversation or specific way of playing

He is often called rude because he is very blunt with both adults and kids, he does not respect adult authority and will argue his point or correct anyone and everyone

He has endless knowledge of pointless facts, especially number related, his reading is around age 13 years and his maths with number bonds 1000+ is instant

He always has to have peanut butter sandwiches for his lunch with the same kind of bread, any variation results in a total metdown, he eats very little variety of food, he wont eat spice, vegetables, meat except processed ham, he always has to have his plate, his spoon etc

He hates new clothes, (which is hard because of how fast he grows) he will not wear anything that he does not percieve as his, he has to have the lables cut out (Im the same) He wont wear pajamas to bed no matter how cold it is. He wont wear shorts to school.

He hates the wind, rain and cold oh and the sun in his eyes, but he wont wear sunglasses and he wont let me turn his cap around to protect his neck

He loves books and his DS but plays with very little else, he LOVES pokemon, he used to obsess over thomas the tank engine and could name every train just by their face by age 2. He really likes the lego DS games. Other toys he plays with occasionally are Lego, Gogo's, toy animals, top trumps and chess, thats about it. He doesn't really watch TV and hates stuff other kids his age like such as Ben 10 etc. When he plays with his toy animals or gogo's he tends to line them up. Oh he also has a thing for cutting animal shapes out of paper and sticking them on the fridge...

He has tics which come and go, just now it is rubing his left hand then his right hand accross his face, he rocks spins and flaps when he is agitated or bored, he also sees no social problem with putting his fingers up his nose or putting his hands down his pants.

I guess he does take things literally, but so do I, I still struggle with the idea that the answer to "how are you" is "fine thanks and you"! Reg doesn't do well with answering if someone says hi, he is more likely to frown and ask them what their favourite pokemon is.

Reg has many meltdowns everyday.. his biscuit breaking in half, he can't find something, he drops a sweet on the floor and has to throw it away, he gets stuck on a game, someone looking at him, running out of room in his pokemon album, his sandwich cut in triangles and not squares.... Basically anything that differs from his opinion of how it should be. (again I relate to this too although I have less tantrums over triangluar sandwiches)

Wavefreak, it was a number of things leading up to a dangerous incident. Him holding chairs above his head and threatening to throw them at people I cant imagine how angry and frustrated he must have been to get to that point. Before that he'd tried to hide under a table then ran out of the classroom into another room but both times he was made to get out and then this incident occured

Jis language skills are pretty good although sometimes he does use quote from the TV in his play but not sure if thats 'normal' or not.

Kiana, that was great! Thank you. Your little boy sounds wonderful I can relate to alot of the things your son has meltdowns over, Harvey reacts negatively to most of those too but its not major, luckily! He seems to have a negative reaction to EVERYTHING unless he knows exactly whats coming. Its hard work in school, every piece of work is met with 'I wont, I can't'

Harvey doesnt seem overly bright at school, what your little lad can do is amazing!! Interesting how they both like chess!!

Thats the other thing Harvey DOESNT do, hes not overly fussed with routines or having the same thing all the time but he doesnt like to know whats going to happen all the time!

Another thing I thought of, he has no concept of time. Not sure if this is relevent either. When we say tomorrow he asks if thats today!? And when we say later he says 'Is that today?' Everything was 'yesterday' to him too!

They do say that chess tournements are the biggest autism conventions going

My eldest lad has done many of the things you are describing with school, he used to sit under the tables and bang his head on them and he often ran out of class, it was only me that he would respond to. I can still see him at 6/7 years time complaining "I can't" He has been excluded ffrom 3 schools for violence to other kids when he gets angry, I have also had to phsically restrain him, now he's bigger than me and it's getting harder, I have to armlock him and I *hate* doing it, but sometimes he gives me no choice. Fortunatly these outbursts a very rare now and normally he is a kind natured and helpful boy, and is always sorry after.

I think the time concept is usual for that age group rather than an autism trait, my youngest is the opposite because time is numbers he gets it totally and always has.

My eldest boy is much more laid back and although he has narrow interests (unless it has wheels or a processor he isn't interested) he's always eaten everything (literally) and doesn't mind what he wears or if routines are broken, but he has never been able to keep friends as he is always too intense.

Also we all have dyspraxia, my eldest is dyslexic too.

Wow!! Really?? I thought chess was abit of an odd interest for a 5/6 year old! It seems to be something about the battle, he wants everything to face each other and battle, hard to explain. Well thats what I thought anyway, maybe he just likes the game! He's pretty good at it too for his age.

Its amazing how your two are so different, Harvey has particular foods he likes but will try most things, he doesnt care what he wears either but he is intense, actually 'intense' is the main word I use to describe his play with others!! !

Thanks so much for your time, Im absolutely loving reading the replies. Its so nice, in a selfish kinda way, to hear about others like him. He is a true sweetheart, he brings me flowers from outside nearly every day, he saves his prizes from school for his little brother and loves nothing more than to snuggle with his baby sister. Hes just so sweet. I just have to keep reminding myself about his qualities as school are starting to bring me down with their negative remarks. His headmaster actually said at the last TAC meeting that he wishes he could 'fix' Harvey!! !!

Thanks again!

I agree with the others - he sounds as if he is on the spectrum somewhere. If he starting talking at the apropriate age, Asperger's is your suspect here.

From what you decribe, it sounds as if his sensory seeking and making transitions are his biggest challenges. Both of these can be greatly improved with intervention.

We script out everything for our daughter. When there is a plan to do something we try to provide as much advance detail as possible. This helps stem the 'invisible expectations' that she can create in her imagination beforehand. It sounds like your boy does this to an amazing degree. He doesn't realize he does it - and the best way to help him realize that others do not know what he is thinking, is to talk him through it. (If you search for 'Theory of Mind', you will find ALOT of threads on the subject.) Make it a casual part of your running conversations every day. We provide commentary for our daughter on everything - when we see a baby crying at the supermarket... awwww... why do you think that baby is crying? Then we go through the list of all the possiblities. Then we talk about how mom has to try and figure out which one it is. TV has been great for us for social scripting this way. Using the character interactions on tv, which are somewhat exaggerated and a bit easier to identify, as a teaching tool. Every part of my daughters day gets some sort of reminder in advance.

Your example of tickling the other mom - perfect teaching example. Just telling him it is rude to do that won't suffice - you need to explain why. Explaining why - the reason why people react the way they do, or why certain actions are only rude at certain times, etc... - is essential. He can learn but you will need to appeal to that intelligent, rational brain with sound reasoning for why things need to be done a certain way. That goes for just about everything. Think of him as a blank slate. Where other child seem to have some instinctual knowledge of why people act the way they do - he has none of that. It doesn't mean he can't learn it, it just needs to be taught from the very basic, very beginning level.

The sensory issues - engage them as often as possible. My daughter uses a stress ball in class when she starts feeling anxious. Your son may benefit from a sensory release technique as a way to deal with his anger. First and foremost, he needs to learn to recognise his anger, when it's building up, what it feels like, and that it needs to be released in a non violent manner. This is where therapy will be of a huge benefit. You can begin by learning to recognise what triggers his angry outbursts. Is it related to issues with disappointed expectations? Is it sensory? Is he overly sensitive to sound, light, temperature, clothing,etc? Learning to watch and recognise what is going on with him and WHY his behaviors occur is of absolute importance in trying to redirect them.

Some of the 'big' factors which seem to sway the decision of an ASD dx or a 'borderline' dx tend to be around making eye contact and seeking out others to play with. If your boy does these, it may be a hard road to getting an ASD dx. But even without on, his other issues do need to be addressed. Keep pushing for reevaluation. If he's been excluded from school for behavioral issues, I would think they would want to take a look at him more closely. I'm assuming you are in the UK. There are lots of parents here that can help guide you there.