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Joe90
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02 Aug 2011, 12:42 pm

I'm not saying NTs can't be easily led, because some can. My cousin is a confident outspoken NT, but since she's got in with a rough crowd, she's started smoking, and she's always said that smoking is stupid, even just under a year ago. And yet when I used to go about with some girls who smoked, I never, ever started smoking myself. I stuck to my guns there, and I was only 12. My cousin is 23.

But anyway, the point of this thread is to ask if you are easily led with other things, like believing what other people say and doing things their way. I know I'm not as stupid as I look, because I can suss people out quicker than you think, and I do know when somebody is lying just to get me to believe them or do what they want, and I do know what I want because I am the type of person who hates other people telling me what to do and making me feel beholden to them or obliged to do what they want.
But the problem is, although (for an Aspie) I am good with picking up signals straight away, I still find I am easily led because I find it really, really difficult to stand up for myself or to say ''no'' to people, even though I know that I should. This is what worries me about my future life. I am trying to work on this, but it's still never going to be a strength of mine to be able to stand up for myself. I find it very awkward, especially to those who I find rather demanding or ''clingy''. I used to be clingy, but now I have taught myself not to be as clingy to people, because I know how bothersome it becomes for other people, because I feel the same towards clingy people. And maybe in a few years time I might suddenly become more assertive, but at the moment it's a very tough part of social interaction for me. And there are so many hidden social rules, and NTs are so fussy about how people react to their views and ideas on things, that I find it even more tough to argue back.

Anyone else easily led for these same reasons, or are you easily led for different reasons?


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johnsmcjohn
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02 Aug 2011, 1:03 pm

When I was young, I was very easily led. I'd do basically anything someone wanted. Luckily I have worked in sales for a while and it's made me much more skeptical of people and their intentions. No one can lead me now unless I deeply respect them.



Callista
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02 Aug 2011, 1:15 pm

No; in fact, the opposite. I have an almost instinctive fear/revulsion reaction when someone tries to pressure me to join with a group by using the "everybody's doing it" argument. I don't mean that people can't convince me; but only logical argument really works. If people try to get me to follow along simply because others are doing it, I may literally panic. I have on some occasions when asked to do something with a large group of people all doing the same nonsensical thing (for example, those silly "team-building" exercises) actually bolted from the room.


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Mummy_of_Peanut
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02 Aug 2011, 1:23 pm

Callista wrote:
No; in fact, the opposite. I have an almost instinctive fear/revulsion reaction when someone tries to pressure me to join with a group by using the "everybody's doing it" argument. I don't mean that people can't convince me; but only logical argument really works. If people try to get me to follow along simply because others are doing it, I may literally panic. I have on some occasions when asked to do something with a large group of people all doing the same nonsensical thing (for example, those silly "team-building" exercises) actually bolted from the room.


Same for me. I had a 'goody two shoes' reputation as a teenager because of my refusal to join in with stupid stuff, e.g. trying a cigarette.



Joe90
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02 Aug 2011, 1:33 pm

For me, it may be from previous experiences of bullying or threat which is why I am like how I am. About 6 months ago, I got bullied because of saying ''no'' to my friends when they wanted me to have sex with a boy who I didn't even fancy. I was polite but firm, but they didn't like it, and started bullying me. I know not everyone is like that, but it still knocks back my confidence. Also, being on job-seekers worries me because I read in the papers that they will stop your job-seekers money if you refuse a job, this is hard for me because there are some jobs that don't coincide with my difficulties and needs, and so now I know I will end up somewhere where I will be pushed into the deep end and have major difficulties, all because of being afraid to say ''no'' to a job, because of this government threat. It's all so scary.

Oh I wish I could stand up for myself without looking too awkward or too horrible.


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League_Girl
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02 Aug 2011, 1:48 pm

Yes. I was led on at work by someone when he told me and other workers that we do not change the toilet paper rolls in the restrooms unless they get down to the roll part. So I started not changing them unless they were down to the roll and my supervisor saw it one day and told me about it. Turns out this other worker was wrong.

But I try and not be led on such as by sales people. I do not trust them. I was more led on as a child and worked on it in my teens. I just have to learn the rules and not be tricked into breaking them because I got told it's okay to do it or be told it's different for me. In high school kids tried to get me to do things like smoke weed or hit someone for them or pull the fire alarm. I remember one girl telling me if I have troubles sleeping, smoke weed and it works, trust her. My mom said she probably does it and I recall my dad saying smoking it makes you tired. No wonder she suggested it.



Sora
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02 Aug 2011, 2:13 pm

I'm the opposite of easily led.

I remember a coach asking me what task I'd volunteer for in a group (such as being stranded on an island with a group of people) and I'd insist on being the one to tell people what to do and make all the decisions.

My elementary school reports commented on that I was stubborn. That was putting it nicely, I guess.

I suppose it still holds true somewhat and I am headstrong. In a good way. I do not follow authority just because someone calls it authority, but I also do not insist on opposing authority for the sake of doing my own thing.

I do not understand why not to tell someone “no” if it is what I deem right.

I learnt that you're not supposed to sometimes, though. I had to learn to say “yes” even in many social situations after learning of my autism.

I'll consider someone's request and if it makes sense and aligns with my intentions I'll decide to fulfil it – but it is my decision to do something for someone. I don't go around and do favours to people who don't give back something to benefit me equally.

It can be “just” gratefulness or earnest happiness - or me having fun, if I think that's perfectly sufficient. But giving something away to someone, I don't see the point of doing it if I don't get anything in return.

I think that my personal relationships with other people should all be like that – give something, get something. Both must work equally to form and sustain the relationship they want to keep.

Incidentally, a lot of peers during school-age thought my autistic behaviour meant that I'd not oppose them. They would approach me and just like that try to pressure me into doing something for them. Didn't end up all too well for them when I was younger, because I didn't understand what was wrong with hitting them if they kept pestering me and then would try to grab me and push me.

A lot of the bullying was always based on that my autism somehow made me look like weak prey to others. If only I knew why exactly. They didn't know how to react to that what they perceived on the outside was not what was going on inside of me and that my reactions were not as they expected them to be.


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Artros
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02 Aug 2011, 2:26 pm

Amusingly, my parents taught me the rule that I should not simply do what others told me to do, and I simply did what they said. In retrospective, I can see how the logic breaks down there. I've never allowed peer pressure to force me into stuff which I considered to be bad (cigarettes, alcohol, drugs). I have tried most of the other things peer pressure tries to force upon you (going to nightclubs and stuff) but found that I did not want to repeat those experiences. I do think that I am kind of led easily in that I quickly assume that someone is telling me the truth. That's not peer pressure, though.


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02 Aug 2011, 2:34 pm

I would just stand there like a rock refusing to do anything unless they explained their reasons and they were good.



Joe90
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02 Aug 2011, 3:24 pm

I do get anxious when people are too demanding. I do like to be independant-minded, rather than having to be beholden to people all the time. This is why I keep backing away from serious relationships, it's because I'm afraid that he'll start dictating what I should and shouldn't do, and not leave me alone, and then I might get myself more and more familiar with him until I get to the stage where I find it difficult to say ''no''. This is why I'm looking for somebody who I really fancy, because then I could be just as demanding on him and he would be with me (because most boyfriends are demanding; texting non-stop, wanting to see you all the time, etc). I don't want to be friends or lovers with someone who is too clingy and demanding because I just can't cope with it. And I'm not just thinking that being best friends or lovers with another Aspie will be better for me, because an Aspie could end up just as demanding as an NT could, but obviously not all Aspies, NTs and people with other disabilities are all demanding. I'm just saying that some people are, and I'm looking for somebody, anybody, who is trusting and reliable and understanding as a friend or lover, but still lets me do certain things my way instead of having to keep giving myself up for them all the time.

It's like with job-searching. I have an NT friend who is also on job-seekers, and she takes it very seriously, while I've always preferred looking for jobs leisurely and at my own pace, without other people getting in the way. But she goes over the top a bit, and does more job searches than needed, and worries about things that aren't likely to happen, like the job-centre telling her off if she doesn't look around the shops on a Friday. I know, myself, that they won't tell you off if you don't do a certain thing on a certain day, as long as you've wrote X amount of job searches down for this week. But she doesn't see that. It gets on my nerves, and she wants to do everything with me, whereas before I used to just look for work on my own without any hassel from other people. I have a few other friends on job-seekers, but they do it their own way too. But I don't know how to say ''no'' to this friend, because I know it is nice to have a friend to do things with, but giving me too much pressure practically makes me more anxious.


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StylishBlossom
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02 Aug 2011, 3:57 pm

Yes, this two-faced girl used to always say how this guy liked me and that guy liked me, and I played along because I didn't want to annoy her, because she was one of the trouble-makers in school. But I knew that she was messing me around for her own amusement, because she never actually bothered to make proper conversation or act like a real friend. She also tried to get me to make-out with the ugly,social out-cast type of guys at school (which was a pervert, an guy who talks about drink all the time, and might end up being an alcoholic in the future), because basically she was bored and had nothing to do, and Wanted to have something to gossip about to her real friends. After that I just avoided her, and she got bored of me then, and don't get any hassle from her since.


Thanks to her, I find it hard to trust people when it comes to making new friends.



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02 Aug 2011, 4:31 pm

I don't follow anyone. I make my own path. I don't care if people follow me or not though. If I'm led by someone, it's because I see that they can help me get to where I need or want to be.


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Last edited by SammichEater on 02 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LuckyLeft
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02 Aug 2011, 4:44 pm

I can be......

Because of it, I have a hard time trusting anyone.......


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Joe90
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02 Aug 2011, 5:04 pm

Well, it doesn't look like it's an Aspie thing then, really. It might just be a personality trait. I think I'm someone who is ''too nice''. Actually, it might be a family trait for me, because almost everybody related to my mum all let theirselves get s**t upon, because people take advantage of our good nature.


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LuxoJr
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02 Aug 2011, 5:14 pm

Not really. I have views I stick to. Morals I stand by. Interests I stay interested in no matter what other people think of them.
Usually, I just do what I want regardless of other people's decisions.


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