Can somene have both Down Syndrome & Aspergers Syndrome?

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05 Oct 2011, 8:44 am

This is just something which I'd be interested in finding out. I know that people with Kanners Syndrome can hae DS as well, but AS is almost the complete opposit of DS. It'd be very interesting to see what someone was like if they had both of these conditions. And before you tell me; I know they're not related.

jmnixon95
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05 Oct 2011, 9:03 am

No, because "mental retardation" is practically always present in DS and you cannot have AS and be "mentally ret*d."

MudandStars
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05 Oct 2011, 9:25 am

It is however possible.... although rare to have both Down's Syndrome and autism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15759262

Edit: added link to an article about people with both Down's and autism

Theoretically it would be possible I guess to have the mosaic version of down's (which doesn't have intellectual disability) and AS.

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Last edited by MudandStars on 05 Oct 2011, 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

jmnixon95
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05 Oct 2011, 9:27 am

Wait, are you saying AS and DS together is possible?

mvaughn32
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05 Oct 2011, 9:32 am

"Autism can co-exist with conditions such as mental retardation, seizure disorder, or Down syndrome."

NDSS

jmnixon95
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05 Oct 2011, 9:33 am

But (s)he was asking about AS, so...

Sora
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05 Oct 2011, 9:33 am

jmnixon95 wrote:

No, because "mental retardation" is practically always present in DS and you cannot have AS and be "mentally ret*d."

According to the DSM, a person can have MR and AS actually.

DSM-IV-TR criteria for 299.80 Asperger's Disorder wrote:

In contrast to Autistic Disorder, Mental Retardation is not usually observed in Asperger's Disorder, although occasional cases in which Mild Mental Retardation is present have been noted (e.g.,when the Mental Retardation becomes apparent only in the school years, with no apparent cognitive or language delay in the first years of life).

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jmnixon95
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05 Oct 2011, 9:34 am

Quote:

Theoretically it would be possible I guess to have the mosaic version of down's (which doesn't have intellectual disability) and AS.

Ah, yes. But I wonder how often it occurs (if at all?)

mvaughn32
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05 Oct 2011, 9:37 am

I just recently heard about the possibility of dual diagnosis with DS-ASD when researching a job position. From the company website:

According to the National Association for the Dually Diagnosed (NADD) 20 - 35% of individuals with Developmental Disabilities have a Dual Diagnosis.

According to the The Arc website incidence of Dual Diagnosis in community based agencies ranges from 10 - 40% and 10 - 20% for the general population.
single most common mental health problem is poor social skills
personality disorders are common
1 in 5 individuals have conduct or behavioral problems
3 - 6% have an affective disorder
rates are higher in adults than in children
higher rates are associated with mild versus severe MR
rates are equivalent for males and females

Current systems are set up to treat either Mental Illness or a Developmental Disability not both.

Community based services often are unavailable or inadequate.

Eighty percent of individuals with a Developmental Disability in state hospitals have a Dual Diagnosis.
stay in state hospitals is 3x longer
are more likely to be placed in restraints during their stay

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05 Oct 2011, 9:40 am

Huh. I know that's in there, but it contradicts what the actual Criteria states (forget Associated Features and Disorders):

DSM-IV wrote:

(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

Wouldn't "mental retardation", even mild, be a "clinically significant delay in cognitive development"?
It would have to be significant enough to be diagnosed, surely.

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05 Oct 2011, 9:45 am

And P.S.: I know it says in the "first years of life", but you still experience cognitive development in the "school years." Mental retardation then would still be a delay in cognitive development.

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05 Oct 2011, 11:00 am

MudandStars wrote:

Theoretically it would be possible I guess to have the mosaic version of down's (which doesn't have intellectual disability) and AS.

I actually think that I may have mosaic Down's Syndrome. I tested positive for Down's Syndrome while in my mother's womb, and I have a large gap between my toes (one of the physical signs of DS). I also have facial features which are unlike anyone else's in my family.

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05 Oct 2011, 11:11 am

This is quite thought provoking. I know for sure that someone with Downs can also have autism, but not so sure about AS. It's possible for a person with Downs Syndrome to have a low end of average IQ - around 85 (some claim they can have genius IQ, but that's unfounded, apparently). If a person with an IQ of 85 didn't have Downs, then would they qualify for a dual diagnosis with AS? It's all about the qualification criteria, not about biology.

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05 Oct 2011, 11:18 am

jmnixon95 wrote:

Wouldn't "mental retardation", even mild, be a "clinically significant delay in cognitive development"?
It would have to be significant enough to be diagnosed, surely.

At first glance, I thought so too.

Quote:

There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development [...] in childhood.

So within the first 3 years of life ("childhood"), a child with AS should still be more or less "normal". I wish it was more descriptive than that. Ah yes, for some reason, those with AS are allowed to show clinically significant impairments in those areas after age 3.

That criterion is problematic because "no clinically significant delay" can mean different things. "Normal" development can include language delays, cognitive delays, delayed self-help skills and adaptive behaviours as well as overall "abnormal" behaviours. Thus, some cases of borderline cognitive functioning and mild MR aren't recognised as such at ages 0-3 or even ages 0-6.

(A kid who starts saying single words at age 23 months sure is delayed compared to that the average age of saying single words is said to be age 12/13 months. Still, starting to say single words at 23 months is perfectly fine for AS whereas starting to say single words at age 25 months is not.)

It's not too long ago I worked with a kid with AS who wasn't detected to have very mild MR until age 8. There had been testing for other childhood disorders when she was age 4 1/2 (if I recall that correctly) but the MR wasn't detected as such. Mild MR isn't always a clear-cut thing so there are child who hit their milestones within the first 3 years of life really "late" but "on time" but still get diagnosed with a cognitive delay later.

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05 Oct 2011, 11:25 am

Perplexing.

I always thought "childhood" was everything post-birth to very early beginning of adulthood.

jmnixon95
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05 Oct 2011, 11:28 am

But I get what you're saying.
I've just never heard of AS and MR combined.

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