NT 'diagnosed' colleagues

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I'm working through a challenging situation with a professional NT associate.

The problem (as always) relates to some work related 'social' (i.e. non-analytical/illogical) misunderstandings.

Rather than expecting this NT to (take the time and interest to) 'understand' me, I have decided to take the initiative and responsibility.

I have decided to think of him as someone who has been 'diagnosed' as NT and as such has a clinically impaired ability to think Autistically.

I have been reading (voraciously) 'A Field Guide for Earthlings' and now understand (or at least recognize) some of his NT behaviour patterns, particularly the obsession with 'social rank' and group membership as well as the broader phenomenon of socially-constructed 'reality'

I am already feeling a huge sense of relief just by deciding to make this mind-shift

I am going to practice being more indirect (as many NTz experience directness as 'aggressive') I will also be playing their non-commitment/ambiguity game by responding with words other than yes and no (and in particular avoiding the word no)

I feel a bit like a Scientist observing and learning about a lost tribe.

But hey, whatever works and keeps the peace with these folk.

Let's see how this goes.

lol this is an interesting idea im going to try this at school.

I should try this with my son's teachers... gonna get into it too. it could help me keep my cool while talking to them. I'm having a hard time not telling them they are stupid these days, i need to learn how to deal with illogical people and understand their egos. Need some research.

There you go!

That is precisely the ONLY way I've found to effectively deal with most of our situations.

Now your thinking!

whats NT?
NYz?

"NT" stands for "Neurotypical" - a.k.a. non-autistic people.

To the OP: Good move. This is the approach I take, and it's extremely effective, although sometimes I get frustrated and start attacking things directly with logic (which sometimes works out - novel approach to peoples problems, and other times doesnt - upsetting people because I'm not taking the illogical factors into account). I accept that I am a logical being and others are not, but I don't think there's any right and wrong in this case, the things which seem illogical to me serve a very necessary communicative function.

oh cool. I didn't know there was a word for that

I am wondering if NTs know what they are doing when they are obsessing over social rank and group membership and the other stuff in the book. Do they know that their brains are wired to obsess over this stuff, or is it such an automatic process, like breathing, that they automatically behave in the NT social manners without knowing what they are doing? I'm guessing it depends on the complexity of the social power play and group dynamics, so the simple stuff is probably automatic and the complex stuff you have to think about. But for the automatic processes, do NTs know that those behaviors are caused by the underlying mental obsession with socialization? I feel that NTs also have all-encompassing interests of abnormal intensity and focus, but everyone has the exact same one - socialization - as would be expected for naturally social people who have to be synchronized with each other to be naturally social. Personality doesn't even play into it, if the social cognition processes are mostly automatic.

The reason I am wondering is because everytime I ask my NT mother if some NT behavior has to do with social power play, her immediate answer is always NO. Then, I explain the explicit steps to her and why I think it is social power play, after which she adamantly agrees with me and says that is exactly what the people are doing. But it's like the process is so automatic to her that it is not recognized for what it is until it is explicitly spelled out from an outside perspective. So it seems to me like the most adept practitioners of social cognition have no clue what they are doing, but I don't know if that's true or not.

Edit to add: When I was little, I often recited poetry and sang songs by ear, after hearing these things once, and I had no clue what I was doing or how I was doing it either. I am wondering if socialization is like that for NTs.

Blindspot149: I'm having an emergency "situation" this afternoon. I have an IEP meeting for my son and will be surrounded by a whole gang of them. The main problem being that they have a lot of power over me and my son's future, but no ability to see what "the right thing to do" is.
An example (i have difficulty making myself clear when talking in abstracts i think): my son has difficulty counting on his fingers when substracting. See, when you do 9 minus 5, you will take either number in your head, and go up or down to the other one, so, 6,7, up to 9,or 8, 7, down to 5, then you count your fingers. The problem is that your brain says 8 when your fingers say 1, then your brain says 7 and your fingers say 2, and after a while he loses the count. I've given him a tip: take your ruler out, put your finger on the 9, and go down 5 centimeters. You get 4, it's visual, it's easy. I went to tell the teacher about this and she got mad at me for interfering and not trusting her as a teacher. (i ended up deducting that part, because she wasn't THAT explicit). The next day, my son came home with a cube, and said the teacher had given him the cube for substractions. It is basically a square centimeter, made of wood, that he has to glide down a numerical line. Problem: once he gets to the number he wants, the square being exactly a centimeter large, he forgets if he's supposed to look left or right of the cube. So basically she went out of her way to change something that worked, to put in place something that doesn't, just so she can tell herself that she is not using my method.
He only goes to school 2 mornings a week and i homeschool him the rest of the time, so you'd think she'd take my methods into account when teaching him, but no.
She instinctively dislikes me, and i don't really know what you can do in a situation like this. I want to respect her feelings enough that she doesn't start actively taking her hatred for me out on my son, but i also cannot let her mess up his brain this way.
This meeting is going to be them using words such as "i don't feel" and " it seems to me" and " i suspect", with no fact to back it up, and me trying to infuse a little bit of concrete thinking, so i can follow what they're trying to say.
I know that i have to remain calm, pleasant, and collected so as not to antagonize them further. But that's all i know. What i am unsure about is how to make my points without having them turn against me and decide they cannot accept my son in their school any longer.
I need help :S I know about the book you have suggested but i haven't ordered it yet, i think I will end up doing it but for now....I'm a bit at a loss.

Field report 1

A key aspect of NT life is that they are usually/permanently operating with incomplete information.

I have always found this aspect of 'communication' with NTz very intellectually difficult and emotionally uncomfortable.

Up until now I have 'coped' with this by asking lots of questions; open questions in my more mindful moments, but avalanches of questions none the less.

- Seems this can be construed by NTz as aggressive and threatening

So I am now making a conscious effort to limit my tendency to question/interrogate

My strategy is both intellectual and emotional

Intellectually

- Most NTz are operating on incomplete information (or fairy tales/socially constructed reality) MOST if not ALL of the time
- Furthermore, since much/most of the 'social' verbal communication made by NTz is not actually information, but just decoration, it isn't supposed to make sense anyway!
- It is therefore understandable for NTz to be weirded out by someone who is constantly interrupting and asking for clarification
- NTz can be quite intimidated by silence and this seems to be one of the reasons that they like to keep the noise going
- I believe the Reality could be that NTz themselves are unable to 'explain' what they are saying for the simple reason that it has no meaning and therefore was not intended to convey any real meaning!
- Recognizing this makes it MUCH easier for me to resist interrogating the NT during what sounds and feels to me like a diatribe!

Emotionally

I have to resist a natural urge to seek confirmation/achieve closure with verbal statements that others make
- At first this was very difficult
- Paradoxically, as I started practicing this, it became easier
- I noticed that my anxiety/stress levels were not increasing (which they usually do when I am questioning NTz as part of my effort to 'follow' an NT diatribe)
- I felt more relaxed
- More importantly, the NT diatribe ends sooner when I am not interrupting them
- Knowing this, also has a calming effect on me and gives me more of a sense of 'control' over the experience

I think the skill of resisting the urge to interrupt (for my intellectual clarification and closure) could be a valuable and perhaps key coping mechanism when interacting with NTz

I now have a field report of my own, thanks to your very helpful PM.
I was able to make this very arrogant and self centered NT feel at ease, by using a few of the methods you described.
I used sentences starting with "I could be wrong" or "this is just my opinion, of course, but" , and by pretending to admit I thought I might not be right, I noticed she was drawn to taking into consideration the fact that I could also be right.
She said very frustrating things such as "i'm the professional" and "this is my job, not yours", and I managed to zone out and nod by ignoring the words she was saying and focusing on the outcome I desired: making her feel superior and appreciated. I said I absolutely agreed with what she was saying, and that I was appreciative of the hard work she was doing. Believe me, readers, I felt dirtier than I have ever felt in my life. It physically hurt and I had to stand with a foot in "the zone" so as to avoid a complete shutdown.

I managed to have them actually listen to a little bit of facts about autism when they were calling my son all kinds of things (lazy, not trying hard enough, ignoring the teacher when she was talking to the whole class, not being independant enough to start working by himself without clear instructions) , they're keeping him at school and upping his time there by half a day.
I had to be mindful of my eyes, though, as looking somebody I dislike in the eyes quickly turns into "the death stare" lol, so I averted my eyes as many times as necessary to re-enter the zone, and then looked again.

It was quite successful , but I really wish these kinds of interactions didn't have to happen, ever. I slept 12 hours the next night........and still have a headache.