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beneficii
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20 Jun 2015, 12:21 am

How about this? I would not assert anything about myself that cannot be independently verified. If I thought something in the past, but said nothing of it to anyone, then I would not assert that I thought it at the time to anyone.

If anyone asks, I would tell them that I cannot guarantee the statement and refuse to say.

I do have one question: How about asserting current thoughts and experiences? The only problem is that such thoughts and experiences may in themselves be unverifiable or depend on past thoughts and experiences, so it appears that permitting such a thing would be problematic.


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BeggingTurtle
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20 Jun 2015, 9:24 pm

Are you worried about the reliability of what you say?


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Aspiewordsmith
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23 Jun 2015, 8:09 pm

More like what is said has not having your word or experiences trusted as valid. :arrow:



kraftiekortie
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23 Jun 2015, 8:20 pm

If you thought something in the past, it's a thought. Whether it's "right" or not is irrelevant.

The key, really, is to edit how you express your thoughts. Everybody has thoughts that they don't want to reveal to other people...no matter their neurological status. Many times, there's a very good reason why someone would not want to reveal ALL his/her thoughts at any given time. If we did that, we would be "Ulysses" by James Joyce--no one would listen to us!

You are entitled to an opinion. It would be nice if it can be "independently verified"--it would carry more validity that way. But just because it can't be "independently verified" doesn't mean it is not valid.

Don't deny yourself the right to express your opinion. But make sure the opinion can stand the test of civilized debate. Make sure you have your own justification for the opinion--though even that is not always possible. There are times when people have opinions based upon a visceral impression which is difficult to verbalize/quantify.



beneficii
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25 Jun 2015, 8:40 pm

kraftiekortie,

The thing is, I'd like to be more objective. There are things I think I thought in the past, but others would doubt, and would accuse me of lying, were I to say it. It causes me to question myself: Perhaps I wanted to think that I thought such a thing in the past. Maybe, most of all, I am lying only to myself.

Because of that, it appears that either saying how I'm thinking or feeling in cases where I am living that thought or feeling, so doing so would be extremely easy and would be no question, or only saying that which can be verified by at least one other person or some sort of record outside of myself, the container of my thoughts, feelings, and memories. If it cause controversy and doubt among others, then say it not, or perhaps if someone insists I thought a certain way to give their view consideration.

That way, I can become more objective.


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kraftiekortie
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25 Jun 2015, 9:07 pm

You are in your own body. How can anybody "independently verify" certain things which are a part of you?

Like dreams, for example. Obviously, no one else could "independently verify" your dreams.

I'm thinking that somebody is trying to "gaslight" you. Deny that you've experienced something when you have actually experienced it. Abusive people tend to do that. They abused you, you remember the abuse, they deny that the abuse took place. They attribute your memory of the abuse to something which is pathological--like a delusion/hallucination.

Obviously, I don't know this to be so. But the potential is there.

You know your own thoughts, your own memories. Maybe you could have a faulty memory--but maybe your memory is actually crystal clear--and somebody wants to tell you that it's faulty for various reasons.



beneficii
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25 Jun 2015, 9:17 pm

kraftiekortie,

No one is gaslighting me. Let's just say someone has their own view on the meaning behind what I said long ago and I know the correct meaning and were it to come up would argue with me about it till kingdom come. Not only that, but my story is rather convenient, too convenient, like a convenient plot device in a movie that makes things easier for the writer but cornier for the viewers.


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kraftiekortie
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25 Jun 2015, 9:37 pm

It's not deliberate gaslighting--but this is a case where you know your own thought, and somebody else is trying to deny it.

Like you said, you know the "correct" meaning--and somebody else is "arguing with you till Kingdom Come." I would be upset about that. The other person is not in your body, not in your experience.

I'm wondering if that the particular "thought" is causing you not to progress in life--and that the other person wants you to progress in life, so this person tries to twist your conception around so that it would stop you from stagnating in life.

Obviously, I don't know this to be so--I'm only speculating.

But I believe, ultimately, that YOU are the master of your own thoughts. If there is distortion (such as that which is found in delusions/hallucinations), it is up to a psychologist/psychiatrist to determine this.

I'm probably misinterpreting something--so bear with me.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 25 Jun 2015, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

beneficii
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25 Jun 2015, 9:42 pm

kraftiekortie,

You bring up an interesting point. I might want to bring this conflict up with my therapist, as well as your point. Thanks!


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