No wonder most Aspies have such low self-esteem!

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Verdandi
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12 Nov 2011, 8:29 pm

Joe90 wrote:
And don't say ''it's not what you say it's the way you say it'' or ''you probably do it at the wrong time'' because it's not about that. I am good at mimicking NT behaviour, and I observe NT behaviour every day, and I know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure if it all just depends on how popular you are, but it just seems so unfair how NTs can get away with being rude ot nasty to us but we're never allowed to rude or nasty to anyone else without us being considered ''the problem''.

Here's some examples:-

An Aspie girl learns it is inappropriate to stare at other people and so she doesn't do it, she only glances up at people to see who they are then looks away and carries on going about her business. But she catches people staring at her quite often, even though she knows full well that she doesn't go out looking unusual or acting in any notable way that is considered noticable and weird. So she learns that staring at other people is inappropriate, but other people staring at her is totally appropriate, and so this damage her self-esteem and gets her into a state and makes herself feel hated.

Another scenario is, an Aspie boy has learnt never to accidentally insult people by giving their honest opinion on their behaviour or looks, but he gets NTs criticising him non-stop about his behaviour and how he looks, so thinking it's OK for people to point out all of his quirks but him never being allowed to point out anybody else's quirks makes him feel very downhearted about himself and makes him actually believe that he's bad, causing self-esteem issues.

Anyone with me on this? There are loads of other examples like these to put down, but these are all I can think of at the moment and they actually describe the way I feel but I changed it to third person because it makes it look less like I'm just ranting on. Is this why some of us, including me, suffer with self-esteem issues?


I think it is. What you wrote is very familiar to me (and I started another thread earlier about specific examples of this kind of thing, but focused on a different element of those situations).

I always find it frustrating when I am given different instructions/rules to follow than other people. Or people get angry at me for things that other people do all the time. It's one of the most infuriating things, except I'm not allowed to be infuriated, either.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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12 Nov 2011, 8:30 pm

backagain wrote:
All these things posted hit very close to home. I have always been the "friend" that people call on when they need something, have been considered "smart", but not the one that gets included because of the friendship. Being socially dense, and having been raised having it pounded into me that I should do things for others, that I was selfish and would never have anyone there for me, sure didn't help. In fact it set me up to be the one always putting themselves out, putting off what I wanted, etc. Heck, I was so dense in my younger years there were things I missed, like my supposed "best friend" not sending me an invitation to her wedding (let alone have me in it), but calling the day of, when she knew I worked nights, to ask me to come. I got the night off and went, didn't realize she didn't actually think I would. Another talked to me about her wedding, I thought she was asking me to be in it, or something, and she wanted me to bartend for her, for free.

I am not the best person to listen to, but I will say at 54 and all the weird people I have met, being a hermit as much as I can be is the only way I want to live.

It's better than the BS, or time wasted on others only to be hurt when they have no use for you.

I can relate to pretty much all of that. I've always found myself always realizing at some point that I was a second-class friend, or not really even a friend at all (despite my sincerest efforts). I suppose I'm a bit bitter about it, but I am tired of people and tired of always ending up the second-class friend. (Hope this doesn't scare you younger folk; maybe knowing earlier in life will make a different for you guys.)
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I like me, don't want to work on changing or improving or whatever, It does come to a point in life when I think we all have a right to be the way we are, and screw all those that don't like it.

+1



SyphonFilter
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12 Nov 2011, 10:53 pm

RushKing wrote:
Mego wrote:
I get targeted all the time and my family sits there and tells me how many people are unemployed and how "lucky" I am. Its very frustrating. Growing up I have had teachers and other peoples parents put me down. In college my roommates mother would stare at me to see what weird things i would do or something. I have had people who i am supposedly friends with say things like "she needs me" or not introduce me to their other friends.

I hate it when that happens. They don't want to be seen with me or something? Sounds like more hierarchical bullshit.

I never understood this whole concept of "coolness". Why can't people just be themselves?
Because many NT's only have a personality for a given social situation, and not one they can call their own. They're never really "themselves".



Ai_Ling
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12 Nov 2011, 11:15 pm

Heres another thing that irks me, the "have confidence in yourself" statement. Well how do you have confidence in yourself if you get pushed down your entire life?



anneurysm
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12 Nov 2011, 11:29 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
Heres another thing that irks me, the "have confidence in yourself" statement. Well how do you have confidence in yourself if you get pushed down your entire life?


+1. Not only pushed down, but led to believe that one is incapable...when the reality is that everyone is capable of growth and change.


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I am an anomaly. Diagnosed with borderline,"tentative" Aspergers at 7 as the school board required me to have a label in order to receive special education services. I did not fit criteria for ASD but that was the closest label that fit my behaviour at the time.

My longtime psychiatrist has confirmed that I do not qualify for an ASD diagnosis (but have traits & OCD-like traits).

Mostly keeping a distance from ASD-related things (including WP).


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12 Nov 2011, 11:44 pm

I agree with this topic so much. I had a similar situation with NT hypocrisy:
NT: You can tell me anything. I won't get mad. If it's something I've done to upset you please tell me. If you don't feel like talking, you can tell me about it later. I'm ready to talk anytime your are.
Me: *Writes them the truth about what they did that made me upset/sad.*
NT: *Explode into rage blaming me for being rude.*

Note: When I'm really upset I loose my speech. So I type out what I am feeling since I can't verbally tell them.

What I've learned: When someone wants you to be truthful with them, LIE. :roll:



backagain
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13 Nov 2011, 12:09 am

Truthfully, I don't understand what they mean by self esteem

I currently meet with a social worker every few weeks as a condition of voc rehab paying for a little help with classes. She pushes me to be more social. Since I have never been officially diagnosed with anything on the spectrum (but over the last 30 years have been told I have many different things by the bozos I have seen) she tries to indicate that my lack of desire to have "friends", be more outgoing etc, is due to my low self esteem. I have told her more than once, I think rather highly of myself, it's other people I have the low opinion of. I have even shared a little with her about the weird situations I have been in, about abusive situations that started with me as a child, included first boyfriend, two husbands, quite a number female "friends" (included in this are the "friends" that back stab, cheat with your "man", steal from you, call you over the least little upset then never have any time, or blame me for any difficulties I have etc.

So, apparently, the concept of self esteem is something that "most people" don't actually possess, but need to have reflected back at them by the people in their lives, and that is why they have them. She tells me I need a support system, need to trust etc.
Not really impressed with her either, but she is not too bad as far as people go, just typical. Has her own issues, has made several snarky remarks about weight, exercise, even made a nasty comment when showing me a picture of her son. ("he's really put on weight" with a sneery tsk tsk look), so......

Followers are frightened by non followers, oh, hell, it might make them think, oh no, can't have that!



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13 Nov 2011, 1:27 am

In 6th grade I told my mother other kids were allowed to misbehave and I wasn't. Mom went to my school and talked to my student teacher and aid and school principal. They decided to record me in class so they did just that. What my mother saw was kids goofing off in their seats and talking and throwing things while the student teacher was going bla bla bla on a math assignment. I was sitting at my desk reading and my teacher take the book away and tell me I need to pay attention. I would write and she would take that away too so I would fall asleep. Mom asked them "that's what you call disrespect?" and she always stood on my side.


I remember being in 4th and 5th grade and we watched a video they took of me in class in may 1996. Kids were doing goofy things like stacking books on his head and I was perfect. Then later in the film I start to make funny faces at my friend and hissing at her and sticking my tongue out and she was doing the same. But she had her hand over her mouth so you couldn't see in the camera. Teachers made a big deal out of it and ignored the silly things other kids did earlier in the video. I argued with them and was pissed they were picking on me. Even my mom was pissed too about it.

In high school kids do things but whenever I do things, kids tattle on me. One of them be one of them touch the fire extinguisher and the sound go off. A teach come out in the hallway and not one student would say who did it. I didn't know who did it so I couldn't say either. But when I do it, they say I did it. My shrink explained to me there was a social rule that you are not to tell on your friends but because I am not their friends, they told on me but if I were their friends, they wouldn't tell on me.



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13 Nov 2011, 1:57 am

I'm addressing this issue with my daughters social skills teacher right now actually. I am dead set against teaching her a set of rules that do not apply evenly to everyone. If my daughter learns a rule she follows it - to the letter. The problem is the 'normal' kids rarely do. I'm trying to get the point across that they need to teach the all the shades of grey within a rule as well. Only teaching 'the rule' will only make kids even bigger targets in many ways.

I learned early on that you watch the way your friends treat other people - because you are next in line for that same treatment should things go south. I am fairly standoffish and keep to myself until I have enough time to observe someone and make a decision about them based on what I see. Casual meetings are one thing but potential friends can be dangerous if you don't look before you leap into a relationship.



Panic
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13 Nov 2011, 2:48 am

wow....i never realized this....well im openly rude nowadays to NTs, i dont care anymore....



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13 Nov 2011, 2:54 am

Ah yes the double standards, those are always fun....for the longest time I always tried to be the good kid, and I still got just as much hell for it so eventually I gave up on that.



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13 Nov 2011, 3:12 am

I remember when I was six, our teacher would not allow us to say pee or poop or potty. We had to say bathroom. This was in special ed. As I got older I noticed how normal kids can say these things and teachers don't say a word about it but special ed teachers make their special needs students say "bathroom."

It does sound weird to me to see a grown up say they have to pee or use the potty. It sounds so childish. It was even weird hearing teens say that in my high school. "I have to pee."

Really if parents and teachers are not going to be teaching their normal kids and student to say bathroom, they should let their special needs kids and students say it too and not teach to them to say bathroom only.


To this day I still say bathroom or restroom. The other words sound so childish. But I have noticed the double standards too between normal kids and special needs kids. Luckily my mother treated my brothers and I the same. Rules I had, my brothers had the same rules too. She was even visual with them too so I wouldn't feel I had something wrong with me just because she was doing it with me only so she did it with my brothers too so it all look normal. I grew up believing that is how you teach kids so it baffled me how they were saying you had to be visual with autistic kids so what was the difference between normal kids needing things to be visual and autistic kids? It just didn't make any sense why it was such a big fuss over how you should be visual with autistic kids.



LadySera
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13 Nov 2011, 4:14 am

exactly



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13 Nov 2011, 7:31 am

My sister is also an Aspie, but she's always worked on making herself appear more normal, etc. etc. She told me the other day, that if you appear 'normal', people are more willing to ignore/forget any social feaupa (sp?).



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13 Nov 2011, 10:54 am

Joe90 wrote:
And don't say ''it's not what you say it's the way you say it'' or ''you probably do it at the wrong time'' because it's not about that. I am good at mimicking NT behaviour, and I observe NT behaviour every day, and I know what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure if it all just depends on how popular you are, but it just seems so unfair how NTs can get away with being rude ot nasty to us but we're never allowed to rude or nasty to anyone else without us being considered ''the problem''.

Here's some examples:-

An Aspie girl learns it is inappropriate to stare at other people and so she doesn't do it, she only glances up at people to see who they are then looks away and carries on going about her business. But she catches people staring at her quite often, even though she knows full well that she doesn't go out looking unusual or acting in any notable way that is considered noticable and weird. So she learns that staring at other people is inappropriate, but other people staring at her is totally appropriate, and so this damage her self-esteem and gets her into a state and makes herself feel hated.

Another scenario is, an Aspie boy has learnt never to accidentally insult people by giving their honest opinion on their behaviour or looks, but he gets NTs criticising him non-stop about his behaviour and how he looks, so thinking it's OK for people to point out all of his quirks but him never being allowed to point out anybody else's quirks makes him feel very downhearted about himself and makes him actually believe that he's bad, causing self-esteem issues.

Anyone with me on this? There are loads of other examples like these to put down, but these are all I can think of at the moment and they actually describe the way I feel but I changed it to third person because it makes it look less like I'm just ranting on. Is this why some of us, including me, suffer with self-esteem issues?


Story of my f*****g life... I get bitched at for doing s**t other people do with no problems whatsoever... Not only does this damage self-esteem, but it also confuses the f**k out of us and makes it even harder to learn what's socially acceptable since apparently certain people are allowed to be stared at(but of course the aspie has no idea how to tell the difference)...