History is one long war between autistics & schizophreni
I believe in the theory that autism and schizophrenia fall at opposite ends of the neurological spectrum with neurotypicals in the middle:
http://classic.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55599/
On many mental traits we find the pattern:
autistics > neurotypicals > schizophrenics
Or
autistics < neurotypicals < schizophrenics.
Neurotypicals are in the middle with autistics and schizophrenics at opposite extremes.
When autistics and schizophrenics have high IQ's they can figure out a way to use their extreme neurology to make original contributions to society, however because they are polar opposites, they are constantly at war pulling the culture in opposite directions with neurotypicals caught in the middle. Schizophrenics or borderline schizophrenics use their superior social ability to get millions of neurotypicals to believe their strange delusions, thus giving rise to art and religion. Meanwhile autistics and borderline autistics use their logical ability to advance our understanding of science and technology.
Even though autistics contribute truth, and schizophrenics contribute fiction, more people follow the schizophrenics in becoming religious because the schizophrenics have superior social skills and the autistics have inferior social skills.
However over thousands of years, people eventually realize the autistics were right and science slowly triumphs over religion.
Sweetleaf
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http://classic.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55599/
On many mental traits we find the pattern:
autistics > neurotypicals > schizophrenics
Or
autistics < neurotypicals < schizophrenics.
Neurotypicals are in the middle with autistics and schizophrenics at opposite extremes.
When autistics and schizophrenics have high IQ's they can figure out a way to use their extreme neurology to make original contributions to society, however because they are polar opposites, they are constantly at war pulling the culture in opposite directions with neurotypicals caught in the middle. Schizophrenics or borderline schizophrenics use their superior social ability to get millions of neurotypicals to believe their strange delusions, thus giving rise to art and religion. Meanwhile autistics and borderline autistics use their logical ability to advance our understanding of science and technology.
Even though autistics contribute truth, and schizophrenics contribute fiction, more people follow the schizophrenics in becoming religious because the schizophrenics have superior social skills and the autistics have inferior social skills.
However over thousands of years, people eventually realize the autistics were right and science slowly triumphs over religion.
That is an intresting theory but there are a few things wrong with it. First of all what superior social ability?....from what I have read most people with scizophrenia do not have a superior social ability and the delusions would probably be real to them so I don't think its about trying to manipulate other people into beliving them as well its more like their perception of reality is screwed up.
Also I don't feel I nessisarly have any special skills in science or technology, some people with autism might have cool skills like that but some of us are just wht society would consider losers so yeah having AS does not mean I know more about science and technology than people without AS. So yeah I think this is a little bit inaccurate, but intresting theory none the less.
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That is an intresting theory but there are a few things wrong with it. First of all what superior social ability?....from what I have read most people with scizophrenia do not have a superior social ability and the delusions would probably be real to them so I don't think its about trying to manipulate other people into beliving them as well its more like their perception of reality is screwed up.
Also I don't feel I nessisarly have any special skills in science or technology, some people with autism might have cool skills like that but some of us are just wht society would consider losers so yeah having AS does not mean I know more about science and technology than people without AS. So yeah I think this is a little bit inaccurate, but intresting theory none the less.
I agree that most autistics and most schizophrenics would be considered losers however I believe that when high IQ and high drive COMBINE with autism, you get achievements in science, technology, engineering and math. Albert Einstein and Bill Gatrs are both people suspected of having autism or at least borderline autism. Similarly, when high IQ and high drive COMBINE with schizophrenia, you get great achievements in art, religion, and social manipulation. Schizophrenic Charles Manson was a charismatic cult leader, the prophets of the worlds greatest religions were probably also at least borderline schizophrenic as many heard voices or claimed to be the path to God.
I don't agree I think someone can have autism and schizophrenia, just look at MCDD and 22q11.2 deletion. I personally think the two are deeply connected. I have friends DXed with schizophrenia who come off as Aspies when they aren't having positive symptoms. I can really relate to schizo affective to the point where I feel I possibly have it In addition to my AS. I do have Bipolar but I don't think BP is a perfect fit for me I do think my AS is though. I don't feel as though the two are completely separate I think they can overlap a bit. I like to think of the two spectrum's as something that overlaps. Where you have severe LDs you have more autistic traits, and where you have less severe LDs you have more psychotic traits. Of course individual personality, genetics, and neurology plays a big factor in it to. Realistically you can't come up with generalizing statics without misrepresenting someone, that's why psychology is so messed up. People don't fit into perfect little diagnostic boxes.
I think schizophrenics and autistics can seem very similar BECAUSE they are opposites. For example, a fat people and muscular people are opposite, yet have many things in common: both are heavy, both wear XX large shirts, both move slowly. It would be easy to misdiagnosed a muscular person as a fat person based on body/mass index just like autistics are often misdiagnosed as schizophrenics based on vaguely defined criteria.
Sweetleaf
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That is an intresting theory but there are a few things wrong with it. First of all what superior social ability?....from what I have read most people with scizophrenia do not have a superior social ability and the delusions would probably be real to them so I don't think its about trying to manipulate other people into beliving them as well its more like their perception of reality is screwed up.
Also I don't feel I nessisarly have any special skills in science or technology, some people with autism might have cool skills like that but some of us are just wht society would consider losers so yeah having AS does not mean I know more about science and technology than people without AS. So yeah I think this is a little bit inaccurate, but intresting theory none the less.
I agree that most autistics and most schizophrenics would be considered losers however I believe that when high IQ and high drive COMBINE with autism, you get achievements in science, technology, engineering and math. Albert Einstein and Bill Gatrs are both people suspected of having autism or at least borderline autism. Similarly, when high IQ and high drive COMBINE with schizophrenia, you get great achievements in art, religion, and social manipulation. Schizophrenic Charles Manson was a charismatic cult leader, the prophets of the worlds greatest religions were probably also at least borderline schizophrenic as many heard voices or claimed to be the path to God.
Well I don't have a high drive, but I think my IQ is fairly high not that I think that really does anything to prove how intelligent I am...but yeah science, technology and engineering have never been my strong points. Also I dont think Charles Manson had schizophrenia I would think its more likely he might have been a psychopath...especially since you mentioned superior social skills, not to mention as a rule people with scizophrenia are not really more violent than people in general.
You might want to read up on the conditions you are attempting to describe before trying to make points having to do with them.
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Well there are always going to be exceptions. And keep in mind, many autistics are falsely diagnosed as schizophrenic and vice versa so a lot of the apparents exceptions are just people who've been wrongly diagnosed.
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A good theorist, when faced with data that contradicts his assumptions, doesn't say, "Well, the data are probably wrong." They account for it and test whether the data are really wrong.
Your theories need a lot of work. You'll also need better analogies than "fat people and muscular people are opposite, yet have many things in common".
Incidentally:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.
Anyway, I'm extremely dubious about Aspie as superior theories, and this one is no better than the rest.
A good theorist, when faced with data that contradicts his assumptions, doesn't say, "Well, the data are probably wrong." They account for it and test whether the data are really wrong.
Your theories need a lot of work. You'll also need better analogies than "fat people and muscular people are opposite, yet have many things in common".
Incidentally:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.
You beat me to giving that example of a mathematical minded schizophrenic person. I was actually just about to do so.
Can you give any actual support for this idea? There are definitely a lot of arts minded autistic people, scientific minded schizophrenic people, and people who contribute a lot to both science and arts who are neither. Also, mathematics is actually very close to art anyways.
Sweetleaf
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They're not mutually exclusive.
One could have both I imagine, however I dont really remember anything about Charls Manson having scizophrenia.....not to mention they are not common co-morbids of each other so it does not makes sense to assume its likely an individual with schizophrenia will be a sociopath or that a sociopath will likely have schizophrenia. In other words the disorders are not related but its probably possible an individual could be a sociopath and have schizophrenia.
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Verdandi
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I forgot to point out that it's a bit leading to suggest Einstein and Gates as autistic and Manson as schizophrenic in this grand historical neurological war.
I'm not going to diagnose him, but I was reading about H.P. Lovecraft yesterday. One thing that stood out was the way he established mystery and weirdness in his stories was by completely dismissing teleology. There isn't a reason for everything, no guiding hand that determines human destiny. The cosmos is vast and uncaring, and human beings are at best accidental. And this kind of premise led to the rather fantastical stories he wrote - Dreamlands, Cthulhu, etc.
I find this relevant because of the autistic tendency to ignore and dismiss teleology. And how it can lead to artistic endeavor.
Actually it's sociopaths and psychopaths who are at the other end of the grand social spectrum. Aspies make terrible liars, don't have social intuition, and are terrible at manipulation. Sociopaths and psychopaths are great at manipulating people, and often have very charismatic personalities. They use flattery to get their way. Take Hitler for example. He was able to brainwash an entire nation. In order to rise to that level of power, you need to be very good with people and very manipulative--the complete opposite of an aspie. I believe that alot of politicians and CEOs have some psychopathic traits. It explains why our world is so effed up. I also just have a general mistrust of men in suits. They seem to always come with trouble.
This is a good article that supports my opinion: Self-attribution fallacy
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Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently.
There are several reasons for adopting my view:
1) autism is believed to be the opposite of schizophrenia. Since the smart autistics are usually good in math, science and technology, we should thus conclude that smart schizophrenics are good at opposite skills: religion, art, charisma.
2) some of the great religious prophets have been suspected of schizophrenia sinced they believed they were messengers of god. Religious leaders have amazing social skills since they are worshipped by millions, and good social skills implies the opposite of autism.
3) autistics are often described as lacking imagination. Many might dismiss this as an insulting stereotype, but it fits with the idea that autistics are better at math/science tan art/religion. It fits with autism being the opposite of schizophrenia because schizophrenia might be described as too much imagination (hallucinations, delusions)
4) studies show that high IQ schizophrenics are highly creative because of their low latent inhibition. If high IQ schizophrenics are creative, then high IQ autistics should be logical, since logic is viewed as the opposite of creativity
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