ASD, Personality Disorder or Social Anxiety....

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Making friends and socialising is hard for me, often times because I do not know what to do in social (casual) situations. I am ok with formal situations in terms of understanding rules of interaction as usually these are quite clear (as in seeing the dr...I go there with a health issue, he asks questions, I answer...and hopefully an accurate diagnosis is made...simple). In casual situations though, when trying to make friends and meet partners it is much more complex. The rules are much less clear and so are the boundaries so that makes it hard to know how to respond.

When socialising in person (text on line is different), to keep things simple, and as my parents were big on manners, I keep things semi formal and polite (yes, no, thank you, please, hold doors open for people, give the old lady your seat on the bus...etc) which makes me look (for a short time anyway) like I know what I am doing. I don't lol. As time goes on things start to fall apart.

Ie Now I can talk to people...I mean you simply walk up to someone and start talking, but whether that turns into a conversation or more is a different matter. I have trouble carrying conversations on, knowing what to say and knowing how to respond sometimes (others time I may know the correct response though but not always, it varies). I also cannot read whether they like me or what they actually expect or want from the interaction. Do they just want a conversation in passing whilst waiting for the bus? Are they simply being polite? Are they trying to befriend me? If they are male are they flirting with me? These things confuse me and when I do socialise I never really know what exactly is going on. So I stick to my polite and hope I look I know what I am doing.

All the same I have not been able to make a real life friend in 19 years simply because I do not know how to go about doing so. I have met people to talk to online but these were mostly males who turn out to want sex with me and usually when I don't feel the same the friendship kind of dies. So I think I have a friend but actually usually it turns out that I don't actually have a friend.

I did make friends at college (the last female friend I had) when I was 19 because I was a high grade average and they used to come to me for help with their work and I would assist them. They were my friends for the duration of the course but then the friendships drifted apart. Before that I was mostly friends with other children my parents threw me together with (those friendships never lasted either) or mingled with the other bullied children at school (those friendships did not last either).

My relationships are not much better...I go years and years without one because it takes me a long time to meet anyone and then when I do find someone it only lasts a short time and fades out.

I can't hold down jobs because I don't get along with the other workers because I do not really fully understand the whole socialising process.

I did get good grades at college but mostly when I work alone...I don't do well in groups at all.

Therapy fails as they seem to fixate on some imaginary embarrassment I am supposed to feel but that is not what stops me from socialising. Not that I never feel any embarrassment, I do, but I am just not sensitive to it for several reasons:

1 It's fleeting for me...it comes, it goes, I forget about it and it sure as hell doesn't stop me making the same mistakes over and over again. The amazing thing is, that each time i make the same mistake, I am surprised by peoples reactions even though their reactions are the same as reactions I have gotten in the past. In this way, people endlessly confuse me and I end up scratching my head trying to figure out what I did so wrong again. You would think I would learn..but no!

2 I think people judge on the strangest weirdest criteria...such as someone knocking a cup of coffee over. So someone spilled their drink...what is the big deal exactly? Or they slipped over or walked into a lamp post...again what is the big deal? Ok the last two can be rather amusing if well timed (I had a head on collision once in front of a bus queue full of people...i found it to be most amusing even though I was the one who walked into it!) but again, so I walked into a post because my thoughts were elsewhere and I did not see it...what is the big deal?

3 I am not perfect, sometimes I make mistakes and get things wrong...again...what is the big deal with not being perfect?

Anyway, my therapist keeps asking where I see myself at the end of therapy and well these days I can't see myself anywhere. Initially it was to make friends (actually I just want a life partner, I do not require lots of friends out side of a loving relationship and tend to find just having a partner is quite enough to cover my social needs) and that was it, but I cannot see that happening as the therapy so far is of no use to me and is not helping. Actually it seems to be making things worse as I cannot get them to understand I do not understand socialising. They think because I can talk to them I can socialise but again I point out that there are set rules to the interactions I have with my therapist and these make it much easier for me to know how to respond (ie they ask questions, I answer...simples!).

Also I do feel lonely, even though much of the time I prefer to potter around on my own doing my own thing and they think that loneliness can be eased by just being around people. It is not that simple! My loneliness is not eased by simply being around people, especially if I am unable to connect with those people (which in most cases I cannot). What I crave is a person I share a connection with, someone I can talk about my fascinations with and someone who makes me laugh and someone I can be intimate with all rolled into one. Which brings me onto relationships. My oddities make it impossible. I am also not good at traditional relationships (ie its no good leaving me in charge of the house work because although I do not like living in a mess I can get sidetracked with my thoughts/fascinations and forget to do chores etc) and I do not fair well when sharing my living space unless I am sharing with someone who is very easy going and accepting of my quirks (I also like someone who does not need to interact constantly even if they are in the same room as me...as this gives me think space and I need head time so to speak. When I am constantly having to chat I cannot get my head time!). Therapy is not helping with any of this and is stressing me out as trying to be normal is bloody hard. I am exhausted from keeping up appearances.

My diagnosis is anxiety, depression and social anxiety but I am not sure they have that right. I think there is something else going on, I just don't know what. But I think they are expecting too much from me and I feel pressured by that. I am 36 and I have always had theses issues in one way or another. I don't think I was born right or something...and I do wonder if the fact I was a premature baby born to a diabetic mother over 40 years old might have contributed. Perhaps my development was not normal because of that or something? I also seem to follow my father...he too could not make friends, was even more oblivious than me to social norms and behaviours (and in his case was avoided by people due to his socially inappropriate behaviour as he did not take the safe route and stick to basic polite like me) and had trouble maintaining relationships if he managed to find them in the first place. He too had oddities and outbursts (tantrums/meltdowns) similar to mine (although he could be a little more aggressive than me but only if someone kept goading him). He did not have my intellectual ability though...I got that from my mother who finished top of her class at school (back in the 1940's) but who was also a social butter...the latter I did not inherit. Did I get my dads genes for social stuff instead or did I learn how not to socialise from him?

See no one teaches me how to do this socialising stuff, and even when I try to learn it I still forget it and make the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again. I seem to be incapable of getting it right in a way that actually leads to lasting relationships.

Yes I do get depressed especially as right now I feel like a soul trapped in a body/brain that does not work right in some way...it's hard to explain but I know what I mean. For years I thought the rest of the world was abnormal (especially as academically I was a straight A student and it went to my head for a while), now I am beginning to think there is something fundamentally wrong with me instead. I may get good academic grades but I lack the other skills needed to do anything useful with them or even function normally.

Anyway I guess I wondered if these are typical of regular anxiety and depression and social anxiety or if there really could be something else going on?

I guess most cant really answer in a way that gives any real definite answer, but some feedback would be nice.

Last edited by bumble on 26 May 2012, 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wow, a lot of deep stuff here. Have they actually tested you for Aspergers? My understanding, from a layman's point of view, is that there are specific tests for that. At least that's how they diagnosed me. It sounds to me like you have it- or have something similar to it. I can relate to the social ordeals, the loneliness, and the need for a partner. I've been through it. If you're Aspergian, you may need to be trained on how to interact socially. I'm going through that now - have been since I've been diagnosed in January 2012. I think that being re-evaluated would be a good first step.

Longshanks

I'm not diagnosed but some of this seems familiar to me. For a long time I worked a night job in a city and after 9 years failed to make any meaningful connection with anybody in my workplace or otherwise.

I lost that job and moved. So far in this new place I have come up with a weekly social gathering in this town. It's a Monday evening hangout in a used book store for "Politics or Spiritual" discussion. It's different but it seems to work for me. Not many people at this thing are close to my age group but it's something. I like coffee and books so the environment is appealing. We just talk about random BS.

I guess the main reason I share this is it's an example of what's working better for me than trying to hangout out in a bar. So I don't know if looking for similar MeetUps could be helpful to other people.

I only know about ASD, not depression or anxiety, so I will only give feedback on the ASD part of the question.

Did you have a lot of autistic traits and behaviors when you were a child?
If you did not, then you can rule out ASD, and if you did, then you may have ASD.

You seem to have autistic traits and behaviors as an adult, and if you can trace them back to childhood, e.g. age seven or five or three, then it is more likely that they are caused by ASD than depression or anxiety.

If you developed your traits and behaviors as an adolescent or adult, then it is more likely that they were caused by something other than ASD, such as depression, anxiety, or life eggsperience.

It's interesting. My doctor explains that depression by itself is responsible for most of the ills that befalls us. You don't want to go out and meet people? Depression speaking. You get agitated easily? Depression speaking. You ignore your special interests and, technically, accomplish nothig? Depression speaking.

And a lot of us lonely, depressed folks are gonna be in trouble this Memorial Day weekend. That's three days of watching the world go to the movies, go visit friends and family, go out on the lake, out to the beach, out for a drive in the country, out to the casinos or out to a theme park. Depression is a b***h. I hope yours gets lifted soon so you can resume living.

Life, interrupted. Sucks.

Hard to tell as I have no family left to ask, only my own memories and things I was told when people were still alive. Whether they are ASD traits or just childhood quirks I don't know.

I always had trouble in one way or another both with socialising and strange quirks in general:

I remember that as I had a preference for playing alone as teacher would complain about my not mixing with the other children and push me to play with them, which always ended in disaster (well socially speaking).

I never got on with their games as they often kept changing the rules and I would throw a tantrum and refuse to play with them

At 5 I preferred to collect bank forms rather than play with dolls or indulge in other childhood games (I remember my mum telling me it used to drive her mad as she could not take me into a bank without my coming out with piles of forms when we went in there lol). I did occasionally play pretend tea parties with other children as long as my mum would make me real tea to go in my plastic tea cup/set. She asked me once if I could just pretend and my reply was 'no'.

I could walk up to and talk to any adult but never got along with my own peers/age group. However I had no speech delays or similar...actually my speech etc was quick to develop and was advanced for my age back then.

I used to have to watch my scoobydoo (*bursts into scooby song on typing that*) at the same time everyday or in my mothers words 'I would have a tantrum from hell'

At 7 social services wanted me to see a child psychologist due to my tantrums but mother refused to take me.

At 13 I did see a child psychologist because I would get upset and try to choke myself, slap myself etc during a tantrum. In those days I would also put my foot or fist through doors etc (but was not likely to attack people). I was being bullied at school at the time and that was not helping. That was 23 years ago back in the late 80's. They did a barrage of tests and concluded that I was advanced in some ways for my age (intellect and moral development) but emotionally immature, over sensitive and too idealistic. No mention of aspergers etc although I don't think it was in the DSM then.

I still have the same tantrums now when upset but they are usually milder than they used to be unless I am under too much stress.

I used to have to labels cut out of my clothes as they drove me insane rubbing my neck all day...I would refuse to wear clothes unless the label had been taken out and I also couldn't stand having my hair brushed because my scalp was uber sensitive so my sensitivities were not just emotional. I also could not tolerate certain materials next to my skin. As an adult I am light sensitive as well but cannot remember if that started later or if I had light sensitivity as a child. I always had a squint and I usually squint when light is too bright...so possibly. I always hated noisy crowds and the only way I can tolerate them is to wear headphones or zone out some how by focusing on my own internal world or a fascination.

I have always been a chronic daydreamer who is lost in my own thoughts most of the time.

--------------------------

Those are some examples, whether they indicate ASD or other issues I don't know.

Oh I never lose interest in my fascinations! I love my fascinations! I obsess over my fascinations!

Lately I am absolutely in love with palaeolithic nutrition and hunter gatherer lifestyles as well as cross stitching and evolution. I did lose interest in my Natural sciences degree lately but realised it was because I'd selected the wrong modules (I was going the geology/fossil route when I really wanted to do evolutionary biology/human biology. I changed modules and my interest is back.

I am also trying to get back to a more natural way of life at the moment. Yes I am keeping modern technology etc around, I mean in terms of diet etc. I have given up smoking, weaned off meds (they do bugger all anyway), and have stopped eating grains, dairy, legumes and all processed foods (paleo diet). I am even going more natural in terms of body hair...I want to see what it feels like grow my arm pit hair back again. I have also stopped using chemical shampoos and conditioners on my head hair and now use more natural methods for cleansing.

I don't know why but I find it most exciting and fascinating.

At some point I want to merge my interest in arts and crafts with the palaeo stuff and do some palaeolithic inspired art work! I may work on designing my own cross stitch patterns. Unfortunately at the moment I am having physical health problems in the form of fatigue and migraine headaches (am hoping the paleo diet will help with that but as I have only been on it properly for a few weeks I need to give it time..I eased in after doing research) I cannot do both my degree and the art stuff, so its one or the other for the time being.

I am still working on all those things, but I am still upset about all the CBT therapy stuff and socialising issues.

Your eggsamples seem pretty typical for a child with ASD, I think.

Based on these childhood traits and behaviors, an argument could be made for giftedness instead of ASD, but the pattern of meltdowns indicates something moar than giftedness.

Throughout your life, if you have always had your patterns of behaviors that are consistent with ASD and your thoughts/feelings/sensings that did not fit in at all with those of the people all around you, not even the other gifted kids or intellectual people, then it is likely that you are autistic, and that your current traits and behaviors are not entirely caused by depression or anxiety.

The therapies for depression and anxiety probably don't work well for someone with ASD, if the therapists assume that you are NT with depression or anxiety.

I have a lot of similar things going on, in terms of difficulty forming friendships. I am not actually anxious about it, I just don't know how to move on a relationship to friendship - like I will enjoy spending time with someone "doing" something together and might think it would be nice to get to know them outside that but I have no idea how you do that. And this frustrates me.

I don't have a diagnosis of social anxiety. I also (for the first time in my life) don't have a diagnosis of depression - my GP seems convinced I am depressed but my psychiatrist is insistent that I am not. I have a diagnosis of ASD and EDD/BPD either or both of which currently lead to anxiety (which manifests itself mostly as very low self esteem, paranoia, perseveration and suicidal ideation).

No idea if this is of any help. I think doctors are too quick to blame everything on depression and am glad I am finally free of this diagnosis and getting the help I need instead of being fed with useless antidepressants - I am now taking a mood stabiliser and a low dose antipsychotic, receiving support from the local autistic society and am on the waiting list for specialist psychotherapy. I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere...even though I'm not actually sure where I want to go! I just want not to be where I've been stuck for years.

I hope you can figure things out. The doctors only looked further than depression when I said that I thought that there was something else going on ... words that you used in your original post.

btbnnyr hit it well, and you got it bumble -- I've seen 'ASD' a mile away, even by excluding your thread here.

Last edited by Mdyar on 30 May 2012, 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Reading your life story really put me through a lot of mine. 52 years old, I have no advice but: love the you you've yet to know.