NTs and their neediness

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I was thinking about something my current bf and I went through when we started living together (that is, my need for personal space / time alone and my "blunt, untactful" requests for it...) that I thought I'd share to see if anyone alse knows what this is like:

When we got our first apartment together 4 years ago, we were both working full time and I didn't have much time to myself to pursue my interests (it was wreaking havoc on my emotional / mental state).
Everytime I would try to talk about it to my bf, he would get in this weird, defensive (?) state where he would seem kind of angry (?) with me for expressing the need for time alone (or maybe he wasn't quite as used to my blunt honesty yet?...) As though I were being selfish and cruel for excluding him from my life...
At one point he asked me what I wanted for my bd, and with out thinking I answered, "Some time alone to work with my 4-track" and I don't think I need to describe the argument that ensued...

Now, however, he's much more tolerant of my little idiosyncrasies and is relatively unruffled if I tell him I want to spend some time with my computer / guitar / eisel and paints / books... Sometimes he's more tolerant than others... but I'm glad he's learned to accept me.

However, this must be an "NT" thing, this need for inclusion (?) and doing things together (at its best) or this incapacity to entertain themselves, this horrible NEEDINESS at it's worst...

Anyone know what I'm going on about? Anyone ever observe this from a close perspective as I have?

The irony is, most NT's want to go out and hang out with people.. I find being alone is no different from "hanging out with the guys" only you're alone

There are times I'VE wanted to be involved with people, however, I think that stems from the fact that I dont have much experience BEING with people outside of my close friends

It can drive me nuts, I can tell you that. I have a next door neighbor, who actually has people over everysingleday! Worse, he has to turn on loud music, and I've had to go over and politely ask him to keep it down. Since I live in a semidetached house, his noise carries right into my living space. I try to imagine needing company every day like that, and I just can't. Sometimes I wish he was and Aspie Of course, that wouldn't guarantee quiet, because he could do something else annoying. There's my two cents

WOW Medusa, you give me HOPE! I used to be VERY "tactless". SOMETIMES, it comes out. The more I think about it, the more I remember that little kid, and I want him BACK! Ever see "the kid"? If that happened with me, I would be DOG MEAT! I was a pacifist, but wouldn't stand for this.

ANYWAY, if I had a girlfriend like you, I would probably become more like that kid I once was and am sure we'd get along. Frankly, if not for the NTs, etc... I WOULD be different. In fact, I would act much like you described!

Anyway, to answer your question, yeah, I have been on both sides. Looking at my life gives a clear picture of "autistic"(for ones self). Don't get me wrong, I was originally very selfLESS as far as paying others way, doing things for people, etc... But I wanted my OWN food prepared my OWN way and my OWN space. I also tended to keep to myself. I have ALSO always been self deprecating, and will avoid putting people out.

Still, if I see others go out, and I wasn't invited, or just didn't go, I may always wonder.

Anyway, BE HAPPY that he changed for you! You are probably MORE likely to have a successful frindship, or more. EVEN if you were "normal", and he seemed to love you from the start, you would probably have less evidence that he TRULY cared.

Steve

Some NT's do seem to thrive to the point of necessity on constant feedback from others. Some also have more difficulty than other to be able to amuse themselves. I actually think before the advent of television and the telephone and cars that people were "allowed" to enjoy solitary, contemplative activities and not be considered weird. I'm not saying everything was wonderful before then - each invention brought with it both postives and negatives - but with more and more communication and travel it seems like those who find that difficult became more obvious and therefore subjected to ridicule. Now if you have a need for some personal space you are being selfish or must have some sort of issue to work out.

Yes, I know exactly what that is like. I also know what it is like to loose girlfriends because they couldn't understand why I was so fascinated with my projects and couldn't keep up with them. I learned the hard way to try to make a ballance. I'm a terrible judge about whether I've made a reasonable compromise; no amount of time is enough for my projects -- eating and sleeping are annoying facts of life sometimes. I once got rather sick because I didn't realize I required sunlight; I don't know if it was weeks or months, but eventually you do need to expose your skin to sunlight.

So now I just do what my wife tells me. If she needs attention, she's good at letting me know. I do reserve a specific time every day for my hobbies, although we occasionally have conflicts about that as well as she'd rather snuggle. But like now in the evening, I try to be understanding and respond kindly when she wants to point to some cute thing she found on the Internet or ask my opinion on something someone said. Of course, I'm supressing feelings of "nails on a chalk board" when this happens, but it makes life better overall to keep her happy and I do get more Internet time.

Think about how you'd know if you are really being fair such that 1) your needs are being reasonable met, and 2) his needs are considered as well. What objective measure is there? If its only based on how you feel about your project, you'll get a lot more time with them and no time with others... it can be lonely.

Aren't Aspies "needy" sometimes, too, though? I don't know that I could ever do without either computer or books to spend time with; and if I had to room with someone else, I'd go crazy, so I'm "needy" for privacy too.

As for neediness with other people, I think sometimes Aspies can become so very desperate to have a relationship that they cling to that person unnecessarily--a friend or significant other--until that person is actually put off by it. This could be part of our general social clumsiness, but it can be defined as "neediness" or perhaps "obsession" with that person. I haven't had this happen to me since about fifth grade, when I felt a deep desire to be "one of the girls"--something that never happened--but I'm one of the more introverted people around here, and I think it happens to a lot of people here.

Extroverted Aspies might simply have trouble knowing how to read a person's "I want to be alone now" signals, or else the tendency towards special interests could come into play. But being very introverted probably isn't the answer either; you miss relationships you could've had. Our trouble seems to be mostly finding a good balance between clinging to people and pushing them away.

"Extroverted Aspie"... Hmm. Is that an oxymoron, or do they exist?

Yup we're both needy in our own ways..



Every partner I've had desperately wanted to be a part of my music, I tried to explain every time that its something I must do alone, that I've spent 5 years learning how to mix and I'm not gonna spend another 5 teaching someone else just so they can do what I do...

Every one of them thought this was a HUGE insult, though I tried to explain that the REASON I work on it so hard, so obsessively, is because I can't relate to people, I dont have friends..

To me it seemed a fair trade, she goes out with her friends, she HAS friends, and I work on my music or writing alone... Every time though she ended up depising the fact that I got no pleasure out of her friends, she ended up despising the fact that I could work on the same song for months and months..

She even started to hate me for feeling it the way I do, started telling me I was lieing and that I taught her music just to show her she couldnt do it!! ! In reality I thought it might let her see that the reason I'm good at what I do, is because I HAVE to be, its my only escape!

Anyway in the end I realised I must be on my own at least until I find stability in my expressions, they will always drive me, but I dont want to bring a partner into my life unless they can accept I do what I do, to survive, just as they have friends, and go out, for the same reason.

Wow.

I can't figure him out sometimes! He WANTS to play with me, he tells me so, and so I bite my tongue and show him a few songs (I've actually taught him to play bass...) but he tells me I'm IMPATIENT... and to me, I'm being SO PATIENT! Then he tells me that he doesn't CARE that much??? And that he doesn't really want to learn to play for the music, he just wants to spend time with me.
This was BEYOND my comprehension at first, until I analyzed it and understood our differences further. It doesn't solve the situation, but it's helped. So has HIS understanding.



Yes. Absolutely. Finally someone who knows what I feel about music in relation to other people...

And Callista, I see your point:



I've only been in 3 relationships in my life (I'm 27) where I got to the point of "clinginess". It usually goes like this: I don't have any close friends, start seeing someone, they become a close friend, and my entire social circle it this one person and THEIR friends. So far, this one has been the longest: 4.5 years! My last record: 4 years.

I think it's part of the very aspie quatily of needing sameness, though, because I cling sometimes to people because they saught ME out, and I'm finally comfortable to a certain extent with them: why change?
Of course, there are reasons to go through change... when you're really depressed because of the emotional games they play that you just don't understand, or when you're being abused. But change is HARD, and it's traumatizing, even.

So I guess I agree with you that it's a form of neediness, but I'd like to add that perhaps it stems from the need for SAMENESS as well as companionship. Or maybe that's just me...

i think that aspies can be extroverted and needy. i have experienced both of these things. the reality though, for me at least, was being able to 'read' other people when it came to thier want for 'alone time'. with friends, bf's, family. it always seemed to me that i was the perfect person for people to go to when they wanted some 'advice/company' w/e and that once my position or time slot had been filled, it was time for them to go on to thier own things. this pissed me off to no end. it was like 'who can i call for this or that' oh let me see what she's doing, maybe she can help me, fill time or w/e. at least that's how i've analyzed such things in my past relations. and for me, no matter how lousy i'd been treated or ignored, i'd keep up ties or relations with these people. even if i knew that last time they were complete a--holes. that could be the want/need for sameness. even in abusive relationships i have stayed, probrably for this same reason. this could also be due to the obsessiveness. as i've gotten older, it's not as 'bad' (obsessions) as it used to be. i have my own interests (always have) but instead of trying to force other people 'into my world' as i have before, i allow them to be more of the way that they are. i used to only 'hang' with a certain type of person (artists/musicians) but now that i'm older i allow for more personalities to enter. sometimes, the 'sameness' can get real old. (even if i feel the strong need for it)

just my experiences, dunno if anyone else can relate.

I use to be very clingy in past relationships.The person was my obsession and if I wasnt with them,I was afraid they would find someone better.We would spend every second together.A lot of times, I would socialize with them and their friends just out of my insecurity.Eventually,I would burn out and end the relationship because I was "losing myself".I would get back into some of my other obsessions and then get obsessed with someone new.
A really vicious cycle that I have finally broken.

Now I am with someone who is very "aspie" in his own obsessions.I am comforted that he is in the apartment with me but we are each doing our own thing.We touch base every few hours and make time to spend together during meals and for a few hours before bed.It has been very nice to find someone who doesnt need to socialize and understands "obsession".