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VMSmith
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12 Aug 2011, 4:06 am

its been said on these forums that autistic people often think in pictures. where does this belief come from and is it based in any report or study or something a little more scientific than a bunch of people saying we do? also, just out of curiosity, what form do your thoughts take?



ValentineWiggin
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12 Aug 2011, 5:37 am

It's "based on" Temple Grandin, a famous successful Autistic person, saying SHE thinks in pictures,
and a film starring Clare Danes as her as an Autistic person, being named "Thinking in Pictures".

I think in concepts.
I can't really get my head around the notion of thinking in imagery or words- those, to me, are mere representations of concepts, the latter specifically made so that we can communicate them to one another efficiently.
What need is there of communicating concepts to ones self? :?


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one-A-N
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12 Aug 2011, 6:22 am

Temple Grandin originally assumed that everyone thought in pictures, because that is how she thinks and she wasn't aware that other people had different thought processes to her.

Nowadays she recognises that some people think in (more or less photo-realistic) pictures; some think in patterns (or schematic diagrams); and some people think in words (concepts).

She believes that the (realistic) visual thinkers tend to be good artists and designers, and certainly she herself is.

The pattern or diagram thinkers tend to be good at mathematics, computing, accounting, and the like. I tend to think in schematic diagrams and have very strong mathematics skills (my job involves lots of number crunching and computer programming).

The word thinkers, according to Temple Grandin, are good at facts and history, and would make good journalists.

I am not sure whether there is a strong theoretical or scientific basis to this, or whether it is loosely based on anecdote and personal experience. In some ways these methods of thinking depend on sight and hearing, our two strong senses: (1) highly visual, (2) mixed visual and auditory, and (3) highly auditory. Perhaps that is the theoretical basis, although I am just guessing.



VMSmith
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12 Aug 2011, 7:20 am

huh. so that came from grandin and a film? wow. thanks. i guess my curiosity is mostly sated.



ValentineWiggin
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12 Aug 2011, 9:42 am

one-A-N wrote:
Temple Grandin originally assumed that everyone thought in pictures, because that is how she thinks and she wasn't aware that other people had different thought processes to her.

Nowadays she recognises that some people think in (more or less photo-realistic) pictures; some think in patterns (or schematic diagrams); and some people think in words (concepts).

She believes that the (realistic) visual thinkers tend to be good artists and designers, and certainly she herself is.

The pattern or diagram thinkers tend to be good at mathematics, computing, accounting, and the like. I tend to think in schematic diagrams and have very strong mathematics skills (my job involves lots of number crunching and computer programming).

The word thinkers, according to Temple Grandin, are good at facts and history, and would make good journalists.

I am not sure whether there is a strong theoretical or scientific basis to this, or whether it is loosely based on anecdote and personal experience. In some ways these methods of thinking depend on sight and hearing, our two strong senses: (1) highly visual, (2) mixed visual and auditory, and (3) highly auditory. Perhaps that is the theoretical basis, although I am just guessing.


I think in concepts, but not in words... I don't "see" anything at all when I think. 8O


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Tuttle
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12 Aug 2011, 10:17 am

one-A-N wrote:
Nowadays she recognises that some people think in (more or less photo-realistic) pictures; some think in patterns (or schematic diagrams); and some people think in words (concepts).



Words and concepts are different thought processes. There are people who think in words and there are people like myself who think in concepts which aren't necessarily associated to any word in any language I know, or any picture, they're just concepts.

People tend to ask me what comes to mind if they say "dog", asking what type of dog I picture. I don't picture a dog, so there is no particular things I picture. Then they ask if I think of the word "dog", and I also don't think of that. There is a concept for "dog" that is associated with the concept best translated to "animal" the concept best translated to "pet" and such. But these aren't words, they're outside of language.

If I need to explain this more I tend to go to emotions - I have alexithymia. I very rarely can put emotions into words other than sometimes the most generic ones posible. However, while I do have issues identifying my emotions at times (and actually rather often, it comes up most days) , it not constantly true. I just have to say "I don't know how to put it into words" often. There's an emotion, that I can identify, and can't translate into any language that others can think of it in. It's not associated with any word or picture, but I know that there's a concept that is associated with it, and can even sometimes identify it when that's what I'm feeling.


I find the concept of thinking in pictures, or words, interesting, because it makes no sense to me. I have been able to pull up a mental image once in my memory, and it was while meditating and was rather high emotion (when I realized I loved my boyfriend).



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12 Aug 2011, 12:21 pm

When I was at school we all had to take a quick test to see what sort of a learner we are. I can't remember the words, but the 3 possible conclusions were ''visual learner'', ''audio learner'', and ''kinetic learner'', or something like that. And the results didn't match everyone's personality nor neurology. One out of 3 people was a visual learner, one out of 3 people was an audio learner, and one out of 3 people was a kinetic learner.
So same probably applies to whether you think in pictures or think in words. I'm Aspie, but I think in words. So one in 2 people probably think in pictures, and one in 2 people probably think in words. Maybe I'm wrong - I don't know everything, but I know that sometimes neurology doesn't always count in how you actually think and learn.


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12 Aug 2011, 12:36 pm

I think kinetically, sensory, emotions, and with words.

Thinking for me is its general outline, what type of 'feeling' it gives off, and the sensory stimulation it outputs.

This is why my memory recollection is poor. I remember feelings. To try to remember what happened it feels like I'm moving with my eyes closed in the memory. I can't remember dialogue, but instead the general feel of what is said.

Words are like tags for me. After I experience something I do a lot of reflecting, and during that I get word-concepts related to what I experienced. This happens to a lesser degree during.



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12 Aug 2011, 12:45 pm

Tuttle wrote:
one-A-N wrote:
Nowadays she recognises that some people think in (more or less photo-realistic) pictures; some think in patterns (or schematic diagrams); and some people think in words (concepts).



Words and concepts are different thought processes. There are people who think in words and there are people like myself who think in concepts which aren't necessarily associated to any word in any language I know, or any picture, they're just concepts.

People tend to ask me what comes to mind if they say "dog", asking what type of dog I picture. I don't picture a dog, so there is no particular things I picture. Then they ask if I think of the word "dog", and I also don't think of that. There is a concept for "dog" that is associated with the concept best translated to "animal" the concept best translated to "pet" and such. But these aren't words, they're outside of language.

If I need to explain this more I tend to go to emotions - I have alexithymia. I very rarely can put emotions into words other than sometimes the most generic ones posible. However, while I do have issues identifying my emotions at times (and actually rather often, it comes up most days) , it not constantly true. I just have to say "I don't know how to put it into words" often. There's an emotion, that I can identify, and can't translate into any language that others can think of it in. It's not associated with any word or picture, but I know that there's a concept that is associated with it, and can even sometimes identify it when that's what I'm feeling.


I find the concept of thinking in pictures, or words, interesting, because it makes no sense to me. I have been able to pull up a mental image once in my memory, and it was while meditating and was rather high emotion (when I realized I loved my boyfriend).


I can empathize with thinking in tangentially-related concepts.
I have no trouble describing my emotions in words, usually, though, and am very upfront about them and why I'm experiencing them, which helps in relationships of all kinds.
But those words are secondary, representations of the feelings. I don't use them except to communicate with other people (their purpose), not internally.


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ScientistOfSound
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12 Aug 2011, 12:46 pm

I don't know how I think
I just do



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12 Aug 2011, 12:48 pm

I think in monochromatic holograms.


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12 Aug 2011, 12:50 pm

Fnord wrote:
I think in monochromatic holograms.


I have to say, sir, that sounds awesome.



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12 Aug 2011, 12:51 pm

ScientistOfSound wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I think in monochromatic holograms.

I have to say, sir, that sounds awesome.

Not really ... the resolution sucks and the refresh rate is slow.


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12 Aug 2011, 12:54 pm

A lot of my thoughts are in pictures or patterns/schematics--but I have other thoughts I can't describe as anything except "thoughts" or "electrical activity in my brain that doesn't turn into anything I can translate into words."

I've read things like "people with autism are often visual thinkers" in a number of books and articles written by clinicians. I think they get this from what their patients/clients say.



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12 Aug 2011, 12:59 pm

When I was in school, I'd often visualise my thoughts as writing on a chalkboard, or on a typewriter. As I'd think something, it would be 'written' or 'typed'.


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ValentineWiggin
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12 Aug 2011, 1:21 pm

ScientistOfSound wrote:
I don't know how I think
I just do


It's quite hard to explain, I think, the experience of thought.


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