People with milder forms of autism struggle as adults

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very interesting article. thanks for posting

I used to and sometimes am still like that. kinda sucks hopefully it will pass for you too

Don't worry, just relax, and try to be yourself. Non_Autistics are not as attuned to body language as you may think.

TheSunAlsoRises

This is the point that I have tried to make several times. I know several people who I am certain are somewhere on the spectrum including my father-in-law and several friends however they are gainfully employed and in relationships and incredibly high functioning and from generations (and countries) where, a diagnosis is a virtual impossibility. A person with down syndrome is unlikely to remain undiagnosed for their life span, whereas HFA, that's touch and go as far as I am concerned so how do they come up with these statistics.

But because you can't prove it either way a large population of successful autistics could exist and I'm inclined to believe that many (or at least some) who grew up in the days when the diagnosis didn't exist became succsesful. I'm not talking about CEOs here(not ruling it out either), just the criteria of that list.

I am quite sure I know one adult male Aspie in his late 40s. With as much attention as AS has been getting in recent years I'm almost sure he knows he's Aspie now. He was less than accomplished for much of life, a raging alcoholic from what I;ve heard but always had a job, and when his daughter was born he just put all of his focus on her. He's been gainfully employed and sober ever since.

I just think many who do have the potential to succeed are are being diagnosed young now have an easier time accepting that they can't do certain things because they know they have a disability, a person in the 80s had no idea that what was wrong with them was "real" so many were able to put it aside and just be the "weird person".

Of course I know this isn't true for all, some unfortunately can't hold down jobs or play normal if the wanted to, I just think taking the "Aspie way out" is easier these days.

All of this applies to any disorder that has only been on the books for 20-30 years. I'm not trying to signal Aspies out here.

I see my younger sister giving up on life because of her ADHD diagnosis, so many peopel with ADHD who had no idea what was wrong with them became "accidentally" successful but I don't think that will happen to her. She seems to have adopted it as her identity.

I agree.

It's a spectrum. Abilities and disabilities (may vary even more) amongst the Autistic population than the non-Autistic population. Listen, there are quite a few variables involved even Dr. Temple Grandin admits THAT she grew up under some advantageous circumstances.

I suspect there is a sizeable population of HFA/Aspergians doing quite well.

But, hey, I believe Aspergers and HFA are different conditions. Time will Tell.

TheSunAlsoRises

I really like that analogy.



On my third job, one of the reasons I was fired was due to being rude to the customers. I had no idea I was rude to them, and was in fact trying for the opposite.



In the UK 12% of people diagnosed with AS and 2% of people diagnosed with autism are employed. Given the numbers of people diagnosed with each, the odds of finding an undiagnosed population that has a much higher employment rate is vanishingly low. I would go so far as to call it "wishful thinking." Yes, there are people who are on the spectrum who are employed, who can support themselves, who do have families. No one denied this. Statistically speaking, it is simply inevitable.



Even if he is autistic, he's just one guy. Spotting one guy does not indicate a trend.



This is one of those theories that latches on the popular consciousness, but it's really not all that good a theory. Over and over, people try to blame diagnosis for keeping disabled people out of work. It may be that this happens, but I doubt it happens to the systemic and pervasive level that is often proposed. I wasn't diagnosed with anything and I didn't accept that I couldn't do certain things because I had no reason to believe it, and I still ended up where I am. This argument is not particularly convincing.



Actually, it's not that simple. Many of the "successful" people with ADHD have milder ADHD, are middle class or upper class, and have had a lot of support both from family and friends as well as educationally and professionally, with or without an ADHD diagnosis. It's not reasonable or realistic to point to Dave Barger, CEO of Jet Blue as an example of what is possible for anyone with ADHD if only they don't know they have ADHD in the first place.

If anything, this is a toxic and hateful attitude to take with people with disabilities. Help people so they can function? Absolutely. Tell people that they're just not trying hard enough because they're taking the "<disorder> way out" is sh***y.

47 and, yep....

Can't say the same is true for me. Without structure I will not know what to do. I'll sit on the same site for hours and just read read read. I make a to-do list everyday and because I take ADHD medication I plan ways to be productive on them, otherwise I'll be lacking the appropriate stimulation and they won't work as well.

But routines and structure is what I need to function. Without it I'd go hours without eating and then probably not be as prepared to make a healthy meal.

...At the moment I'm unable to function from lack of food, light headed and headachy, because rather than making myself food or remembering to even ask my boyfriend to do so I spent the time on wrongplanet and irc. Luckily my boyfriend just made me food so after I finish this post I'll actually eat.

The schedule drop of no longer taking classes really hurt my ability to do things like remember to eat.

I once registered for college strictly for the added routine. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for very long, but was a big help while it did.

That sounds like a great idea other than the cost of registering for classes.

Alrighty.

So to sum up, you have no issues with pointing out that using one person as an example doesn't indicate a trend but spin the data that shows autistics to be unsuccessful to your advantage?

Of course one person doesn't indicate a trend, how many successful Aspies are you ignoring when you say that? Nobody said it was the majority. I don't think you want to acknowledge the successful ones on this forum or the ones that were never diagnosed. I've seen many diagnosed later in life on WP who meet all of those criteria.

BTW I have ADHD that isn't mild and I grew up poor with a mentally ill parent. If I had grown up in today's rainbows and unicorns mambie pambie land I probably never would have tried to do with anything with myself.

I don't think anyone's going to have an argument that's convincing for you, you may be right about yourself and your abilities. My point was that people who have not shared your experience exist and there's no way to know how many of them are around.

In the short term it was a good idea. In the long term, it was a terrible idea. Sadly, the only part that mattered was the long term.

I'm not "spinning data." The data is there for anyone to see.

And how is the data to my advantage? And why are you trying to sum up my argument into a single sentence that doesn't reflect what I am trying to say?



I explicitly acknowledged an extremely successful member of this forum by name earlier in the thread. Why wouldn't I want to acknowledge any of them? I didn't say they didn't exist - I even said statistically that their existence is inevitable.



See, this is BS. A lot of people who went undiagnosed weren't able to function at the same level. Weren't able. Trying to blame it on some kind of zeitgeist that doesn't exist is BS. No one is out there telling people with disabilities that it's okay to fail, that we can't succeed, and so on. If anything, there's always pressure to function, to push yourself. I am fifteen years older than you and I grew up with constant pressure to perform, constantly being told I could do anything I wanted, even though it was so hard I broke my brain repeatedly just trying.



No, no one has any arguments that are convincing for me because no one has statistics or data. They have assumptions, wishful thinking, and biased claims. When I look at empirical data, I see numbers that indicate that autistic people have a very difficult time finding employment or supporting themselves. When I look at this forum I see people trying to prop up this idea of a significant unidentified population of successful aspies. And I see people trying to construct sociologically and psychologically unsound reasons as to why this population would exist, and why the high unemployment must necessarily be about being taught that one cannot function more than dealing with a combination of impairments and prejudices. As far as I'm concerned, this entire idea is "rainbows and unicorns nambie pambie land."

I never claimed that people who don't share my experience don't exist. I don't even know if a significant number of autistic people share my experiences. What I do know is that a significant majority of autistic people have similar outcomes.

If someone can present a theory that is more substantial than "I know a bunch of guys I assume are Aspies who have families and jobs" then I am more than willing to listen. I am not denying that there are autistic people who have families and jobs. I don't even think such a claim is remotely controversial. It's the conclusions people draw from it that I find questionable.

The data that is there for people to see pertains to diagnosed Aspies. I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I was talking about sucessful Aspies who go without diagnosis in the first place.

Everything you're saying is about you, is my point. Nobody said you didn't fail at 3 jobs and that it wasn't because you were legitimately disabled. It happens and quite frequently among diagnosed autistics.

If I had responded to you're OP saying the data on diagnosed autistics was wrong you'd have reason to point out all of the instances where that is not the case. I responded to someone who said they didn't believe there could be large population of undiagnosed successful autistics.

FWIW it is actually said that up to 80% of people with AS are unemployed but nothing like that was even implied in the link you quoted, not to mention the data is from one study. If "A new study had suggested" that there were a large group of successful undiagnosed autistics living among the population I doubt very seriously you would have lent any credence to it. So that is spin.

And you spun me by implying that succesful people with ADHD are working at the top of major corporations by suddenly abandoning your list of criteria that makes one successful in favor of a dramatic new definition that was sure to prove me wrong

I don't read threads all the way through that are more than 3 or 4 pages so I don't know what replies you're talking about and I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you but I did make it clear that I was talking about people with disabilities other than autism and as you keep relating every thing I say back to yourself I'm just guessing that you're taking this personally