NTs and Pressure

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I have noticed that when neurotypical folks want to in some way pressure or harass me about something, they will often use certain words and phrases that include what appear to be false compliments or faked feelings of affection in the same e-mail or portion of a conversation, and then will get angry at me when I ignore those things and focus on what they're actually saying. I was wondering if other Aspies have noticed this same pattern, that, for some reason, by including certain key words, NTs seem to think it negates the negativity of their actual statement and that people should somehow feel compelled to believe or obey them because they said something positive with it (A positive that is often not even true, but a manipulative lie). Maybe it's just a select handful of NTs that I deal with who do this.

In any event, I seem to have the opposite reaction of what they're expecting, getting offended by their harassment or attempt to dominate *and* by their fake positive words that by their actions they usually demonstrate they don't really believe, or even by their words within the same few sentences. For example, I've even heard "I think you're highly intelligent, possibly a genius, and very honest, and have many positive attributes so you must be able to do _______ despite your protestations that you can not.", yet in that very statement where someone says I am highly intelligent and honest, they are implying either that I am not intelligent enough to figure out whether I can or can not do whatever they're describing or that I am dishonest enough to be lying about my abilities therefore. I've also had relatives say "I love you, but [fill in sentences describing how my basic personality is horrible and I need to conform to normalcy in all regards, thus negating the idea that they love who I am, which is an autistic who is by definition not normal and can't conform]", where, obviously again, if the bulk of their actual statement is true, then they don't really love me (At best, they love a false image of what they feel I could be because they are related to me and feel they have to, at worst they are flat out lying, to either me or to themselves or to both).

Along similar lines, many NTs seem to think they can get me to do things I either firmly am opposed to doing or actually am incapable of doing simply by repeating their request daily in increasing agravating and threatening tones. This is even done by people who have known me long enough to be well aware that I am stubborn as a mule and will almost never reconsider anything I'm being harassed or unduly pressured to reconsider, just on principle, even if I were capable of doing so, which I'm often not. It's like they can't learn from experience, in many cases (Not all NTs are like this, but many seem to be).

Is this something a lot of Aspies experience? And, if so, why do you think NTs do these things? Does it work on their fellow NTs? It seems like people would have to be awfully stupid to fall for these things. The really strange part is that the NTs who do some of them really seem to believe things that are diametrically opposed in many cases like "That person is completely honest, but lies about everything" or "That person is very smart, but isn't intelligent enough to properly evaluate any situation.". I wonder how people can behave this way and then come to the conclusion that autistic person is the one with the brain damage!

I think I understand what you mean CharmCityCrab, as I've been saying to myself for nearly 50 years, why can't people just say what they mean? NT's do understand each other in this respect, I'm sure, and what they mean is so obvious to them that they don't realise that half the time they talk in 'code'. Not much help to you, as I'm puzzled about this question as much as you, but here's another example of it.
A neighbour told me the other day that she had to go the doctor's surgery in the morning.
Then she said that her husband would be at work. (Therefore, she would have no car)
Then she said her back was really painful.
Then the bus service around here is very hit and miss.
It wasn't until I got home and thought about it that I realised that her decoded message was 'I've got a doctor's appointment in the morning, could you give me a lift?'
I think that's why some NTs think we're strange because we don't understand exactly what they want but they talk in such a convoluted fashion, it's confusing!

Yes i have been told false compliments before and those A******S just think they can manipulate us aspies just because we're not as socially skilled

F*** RAP MUSIC,F*** FOOTBALL AND F*** UNDERAGE DRUGS,SEX AND ALCOHOL!! !

NT's do these sorts of things because it's what they understand. They don't know they are speaking in psudeo-languages but they are. They get easily frusterated at the fact that we don't have these capabilities. What NT's don't realise is that we actually have to say what is on our mind as opposed to sending non-verbal cues like the rest of the world does.

Something that you pointed out is that if you don't do something an NT wants they will become very mean and possibly try to intimidate you in to doing something after they have tried being all kind and things of the like. This is more or less to be expected. NTs have a pack behavior about them and you'll find that the leaders will be organizing the rest of the clique to move against you until you do as they wish. It's rather quite sickening the abuse they put their own friends through in attempts to gain social dominance. It's a big game of chess to them and they get ticked off when others don't play the same game It's for many of these reasons that many with AS have been bullied at some point or another. Just let them play their games alone

I have to take a bit of issue with that. I'm a big Baltimore Ravens fan and have been told that's actually one of my Aspergian obsessive interests. I can see why some Aspies might see football and sports as something the jocks or popular people watch, because, well, they do, but actually following sports on television and such is also something that can be very satisfying for an autistic.

I'm told one trait many autistics share is that they like carefully crafted rules and guidelines, and stability. Watching sports (Or listening to them on the radio) would seem to be something that would thus meet the criteria of being an interest autistics might enjoy. Think of football, as an example. Each game follows the same set of carefully crafted rules, week in and week out, and employs strategy and so forth. The field is always the same length and width, there are always the same guidelines that must be worked with in order to achieve the same objects, and so forth. Yet, the differing personel, weather conditions, and strategies employed give it enough variability to be something that out can actually think about and anaylsis. It's a little bit like a physical game of chess. Yet, it is more visually interesting than chess and has the added benefit of being something that one can sit and back and watch and relax, rooting for a particular team and pondering what's going on and what may happen next, while knowing that it will fit into certain guidelines and the rules and settings won't suddenly change or whatnot. Baseball is perhaps even more autistic-friendly, in many ways.

I'd hate to think that people who might otherwise enjoy watching sports might not give them a chance just because they don't enjoy actually playing them, or have a sterotype that it's something that people who they don't get along with enjoy. Even if the sterotype is true, one can have common interests with people one doesn't get along with. After all, we all have common interests in breathing and eating.

F*** EATING!!

LOL

Seriously though, I think I'm anorexic... eating is not something I enjoy, I just eat so I don't die.

Unknown, they don't just do that to Aspies--they do it to each other, too. They do it to everyone. It's not specifically meant to manipulate us, though it can be used for manipulation--of Aspies as well as NTs.

NT communication simply isn't direct. It's a lot of implication and below-the-surface messages. The problem is that we don't speak their language, whether or not we use the same words they do.

"Anorexia"=lack of appetite. So yeah, you're anorexic. But "anorexia nervosa", the psychiatric condition, doesn't match. You're not obsessed with your weight. Just uninterested in eating. (Make sure you stay at a normal weight, get enough fluids, and get the vitamins/minerals you need. Eating may be uninteresting, but your brain needs fuel, neh?).

I know how you feel though. It's weird--most of the time I love to eat (which is why I weigh about 200 lb.); but occasionally, for a few days at a time, other things are so much more interesting. Over the last three days I was obsessed with figuring out my roommate's copy of "The Sims", and I don't remember eating much... a piece of bread, I think, and a bowl of macaroni. Just whatever was within reach. This morning I finally finished figuring out the game, so that I can do anything with it ("The Sims", like most modern games, is heavy on the graphics at the expense of actual game--about 50 hours of gameplay, total, unlike my roguelikes, which have given me probably thousands of hours apiece). I found myself dehydrated, with a headache and sore back... Hadn't noticed those things while I was immersed in the game. Eating just wasn't interesting.

I should be absolutely obsessed with things more often. It sounds like it would make a great diet.

Mostly, I try to. But I run into situations where I can't do that. For example, due to my autism in combination with other conditions, both neurological and physical, I can not work. As a result of that, I have had to rely on other people for help surviving historically. Hopefully that will change eventually as solid diagnosises in several new categories may help me get government assistance, but that is potentially in the future and not applicable previously or currently.

My parents are in particular expert manipulators and very controlling and crafty. Even some neurotypicals who knows them well agree with my assessment. I long ago, before even my teens decided that I was not going to be taken in by that and have essentially ignored them and lived fiercely independently. As early as ten years old when I decided I had a conscienceous objection to attending their particular preferred type of religious services, I refused to go, and was grounded for many, many months as a result, but I would not give them the leverage over me to force my hand. Obviously, eventually they had to give up because it would not do to lock up a child for years on end. I don't kid when I say I'm stubborn and really can't be refused into doing anything.

I always assumed I'd be out of there the day I turned 18 and then a series of physical health issues delayed that until I was 19 and went off to college for a while, and then I wasn't capable of even that for various reasons. Having to move in with them was perhaps the worst thing that ever happened to me. It is not only that they are mean people, it is also that under the best of circumstances with perfect people, I still would have reservations about living with more than one or two other people and being dependent upon one or more of them (I'm kind of an independent guy, so the being dependent on others financially bothers me, and I'm uncomfortable in large groups with children, preferring one on one or two on one interaction) It was either that or me homeless, though. And they made promises that they didn't keep in terms of an independent living environment and so forth. Open, blantant lies, which is their motis oporendi in general.

Eventually I was able to get out of there and lived across the country for a while, but the circumstances which brought me out there fell through and I had to jump from place to place dodging homelessness and relying on people's good will, which as anyone who is autistic knows is in short supply when it comes to NTs dealing with autistics. A relative cut a deal to bring me back to the area when it looked like I'd be homeless, so I could pursue diagnosises that would hopefully lead to government assistance and so forth. So I know live in an apartment by myself, but I have to rely on my parents for funding and they make threats and generally behave like donkey's rearends, trying to intimidate me into doing things I can't do, or speeding up processes like getting government assistance that I told them before would take a very long length of time. I don't think they owe me anything, but they should have left me out west if they were going to be this difficult. I've always maintained, and I firmly believe, that helping someone out financially or in some other way doesn't buy one the right to be verbally or emotionally abusive, and doesn't buy control. And I refuse to be controlled or to put up with bull.

Unfortunately, the situation is so bad in my view that I actually feel that I may have made a mistake in coming back this way. I only did it because I was persuaded that this could lead me on a path to self-sufficency and that I'd be given time to get that stuff together and then be able to not deal with my parents on any basis whatsoever. But not being given that time has perhaps just made it a way of delaying the inevitable, which is something I have in some ways felt like I've been doing for five years or more. I seem to be on a path towards homelessness and so forth and essentially have been executing delaying attempts since, but there has to be more to life than just making sure one has a place to stay for a little while at a time. I need some long-term security that doesn't force me to rely on people I dislike who can not be trusted. And at times when it seems I will never get there, I wonder what the point is of delaying being homeless is. It certainly adds more stress to my life of wondering if I'll be forced into that situation one day. Obviously that would be a bad situation and is stressful for obvious reasons having to deal with it day in or day out, probably better to be stressed about a possibility than deal with reality, but it becomes a near-thing, that could be argued either way, if that reality becomes unavoidable or just a matter of time.

And all this is with the backdrop of knowing that my greatest dream in life of finding a spouse is probably unachieveable for me. I made it my top priority for many years and couldn't do it. There are just many barriers. No matter how many people skills I've tried to learn, they don't change my basic nature, which is something people tend not to be able to deal with. And they can't change my neurological and physical disability, or the fact that I'll never have a job that supports me, which is something women look at as a big problem with a man. Knowing know that I'm autistic actually mades me wonder if my wanting a wife is beyond just be a sappy sentimental person who listens to too many love songs and loves a good romantic movie or tv show, but actually also an Aspie obsessive life-long interest. I'd actually nearly be homeless and be busy looking for love interests at various times -- it seems to be one of those things I'm just wired to find as being more important than most things, finding a soulmate to spend my life with. It's possible that I'll never truly be content if I don't achieve this thing which is essentially impossible for me. A paradox if I've ever seen one!

So, obviously, I'm under a lot of stress. I'm not quite sure why my parents and others decide they need to add to it all the time -- as if the physical pain and emotional distress my situation creates in and of itself isn't enough!

Whoah this totally rung with me, I get this too often to count.

Though generally I'm told I MUST be a liar because I'm so logical and calm 90% of the time.

Anyway, I find it interesting that I hear the way most people talk as vague and confusing, unless we're talking about certain topics yet they say the same to me when I feel I'm being totally specific and focused.

I get told I'm vague, so I repeat myself, then they act as if I've said something totally different and refined!

Coincidentally:

Girl just rang me, said that she thinks I don't treat her as if I love her, in my mind I've given her everything I can possibly give till I have nothing left. I guess I'm just giving something wrong, or something she can't receive as feeling.

That happens with me ALL THE TIME!

Steve

Well from what i know they do it more to us than to themselves.

Guess what time it is kids!

It's time for Fembot Bingo!! !!

http://eternalbachelor.blogspot.com/200 ... -game.html

I don't really think it's fair that feminists and the feminist movement are so often painted with such a broadly negative brush, as I feel the feminist movement has by and large been a good thing for the world.

For many years women were told that they couldn't possibly be doctors or lawyers or, really much of anything, except mothers and housewives. They were considered by many men, and even some other women, to be somehow weaker in terms of mental and emotional abilities and so forth. In the sphere of interpersonal relations, they were told they musn't be too flirtaceous or do the things that were considered perfectly acceptable for men. Then if they actually managed to overcome what they were being told and developed a level of self-confidence and tried to get out into the world, they were accused of trying to be men or being prostitutes and so forth. These were all grave injustices.

Along comes a movement to change all this and, in most respects, it's succeeded. Seems like femnism actually was a great thing, striking a blow in favor of justice and equality, and in favor of women being able to live their dreams and having options. Yet, for some reason, it's been demonized by the far right in this country, and the far right has succeeded in making it a dirty word. Well, to me, it's not. I'm glad there is feminism in the world and I consider myself a femnist (Yes, one can be male and a feminist ).

Now, like any movement, the feminist movement does include some folks who may go a little bit overboard and make wild and wacky statements. I don't think it's fair to judge the movement as a whole based on a few fringe elements, though. Almost movements have a few people on the fringes who make the rest look bad, but fair-minded individuals should try to look past such fringe elements as non-representive samples and look at the mainstream of the movement.

Also, let's not make the mistake of thinking that feminism causes women to think harshly of men to any greater extent than anti-feminism does. Sure, a woman who is feminist might not like you or me and use feminism as an excuse for that, but usually it's a rationalization of an innate feeling she'd have even if she were Rush Limbaugh's number one dittohead (Or whatever he's calling his people nowadays ). My experience has actually been that liberal women are statistically more likely to give me a chance and evaluate who I am based on my words and my actions than society as whole.

Of the people I've dated, the vast majority have been liberals who would, probably, if they were more politically active, have considered themselves feminists as well. Conservative women almost always tend look at me and say "You're a worthless drain on society. I would never date someone like you. Why don't you just die?". Some don't state it openly, but if one reads behind the lines, it's there, or at least has been in my experience. Conservatism, as a philosophical principle in modern America, values conformity and capitalist merit above all else. If you can hold done a steady job and make money, while fulfilling all the religious and social tests you're given, then you're worthy of being respected and thus marriage material, under that way of thinking. If you can't make money, though, it is very rare that a conservative woman will even give you a first date, they don't believe you have any intrinsic value as a spouse, or even, according to some, as a person. That's why conservatives want to cut social spending -- the argument comes down to "People are lazy, different, or whatever, inferior. They need to prove they can earn a living, and if not they deserve their fate as homeless people or whatever.".

What makes a liberal a liberal, when it comes down to it, is that liberals believe all human beings have INTRINSIC value, which is to say value that is a given and not derived from anything they might or might not be able to do or any value they might or might not hold. That is why liberals have been at the forefront of trying to ensure protection for racial and economic minorities, as well as women and homosexuals. And that's why I'm proud to be a liberal and a feminist, because liberalism, at it's best, embodies the philosophy of loving one another, because it's not conditional on anything.

It kind of bothers me that of all people, some autistics can be anti-liberal or anti-femnist. Folks, I hate to break it to you, but we autistics are a minority, too. It's impossible for us to really fit in with a comformist movement, because we can't truly conform or be part of that kind of group. And with our life experiences of rejection, hurt, and discrimination, we should know better than anyone that diversity ought to be something to be valued, cherished, and protected. I know we're wired to like stability and so forth, but if we stop and think a minute, I think we'll find that we can identify with people who are very different than us, because we share the common experience of being human and being treated shabbily or as outcasts unjustly, or, at minimum, have shared the experience with women of being told we have to conform to societal expectations that don't fit who we are and want to become.

I can't speak for a lot of Aspies. I can only speak for myself. I witness this daily and I've learned that when dealing with NT's, they prefer bad news tempered with good news. They can't take a blow to the ego and use it as an opportunity to change things unless they hear that there is something that they are actually doing right at the same time they are told they are doing something wrong.

Yes, it really works on their fellow NT's.

I completely agree that people should mean what they say and say what they mean. It wastes time to lie to each other.

Yeah I always thought that was weird.. if you want to dicipline them you have to compliment them afterwards to balance things out so they dont get all emotionally unstable on you.

So I dont do it

Dont look at me like that making a grown man cry is entertaining you should try it sometime

Just be careful not to antagonize them too much they tend to get violent without warning.

I say if you dont want to hear the bad news dont mess up. If you make a mistake your going to get called on it suck it up and take it like an aspie

Even smart people can have "issues", emotional hangups, or some other problem that prevents them from thinking clearly sometimes about certain things.



To translate what they're trying to say...

I love you and I want the best for you. If you continue as you are, you're simply not going to have access to the good things in life. I love you too much to wish such a fate on you, so let's work on changing you to where you can do well for yourself.

Does that make more sense?