How do you know if...

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...you have problems interpreting social cues?
...you don't pick up on subtle body language?
...you aren't very expressive?

Does somebody come and tell you? Do you ask your colleagues? Do you test yourself in the mirror?

I'm confused, because if I do have an issue it's very subtle. I.e. I know I'm not much for socialising and I know I can be a walking conversation stopper, but I don't necessarily know why. I've always just considered myself a bit socially ret*d and too principled to discuss anything I can't see the point of like "weather" or "pop culture". I'm not diagnosed with anything and asking to be evaluated isn't an option. But now that I'm suspicious and trying to figure myself out, I keep coming across the same lists of traits like "finding communication difficult", but most of the explanations/descriptions seem to be for pretty extreme examples only.

This may seem like a pretty stupid question, and one which has been answered in many small ways already, but I keep coming back to these "how do I know [how I come across to people/if I've said something tactless/if it's me that's odd and not them]?" type questions again and again.

Any thoughts?

Filipendula

Your three suggestions all occurred with me, but the way I knew was because I kept having the same social failure occur in every new social situation with every new group of people I encountered, from the time I was 10, to now when I'm a junior in college.

I broke emotionally and went to read about AS, and realized that the other aspects of it fit me. The social stuff was hard to describe, but I kind of felt like it might be the case. So I started asking friends whether I did this or that (after reading about the common aspects of AS) and found out they all knew subconsciously that I was doing all this stuff wrong.

The one thing that clued me in was that social situations that everyone else understood absolutely puzzled me.

Stop looking at vague lists, and focus on specific testimony from people who have it, and read books that are more specific.
Realize that lists are the general principles, and everyone is different.

Do you use a lot of gestures when you speak, or not? Does your voice tone go up and down, or are you monotone? Do your facial expressions just reflect your own emotion, but not with the intention of "sharing" that emotion with others?
Some of those things were issues my psychologist pointed out, that I didn't know about myself. I didn't know that I was monotone - I never paid attention!

In every case, I needed someone to tell me. Now that I know, what I thought was subtle and difficult to spot is pretty blatant and obvious. I started a thread recently about my communication issues, as I have observed them so far. I don't think it's nearly complete, it's strictly what has been pointed out to me and that I have been able to verify in multiple situations:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt201490.html



Here's something that I am still getting used to:

Being autistic seems to interfere with the ability to notice many of the associated impairments. It's pervasive and represents "normal." I thought everyone thought like I did and perceived like I did until I found out I was autistic. I also at first found it very difficult to understand or perceive my social impairments. I thought they were mild at best, and thought that my perceptions were accurate. Over the past year and a half I have learned over and over again that they were not mild and my perceptions are not accurate. What seemed subtle and hard to see in December 2010 now is something I am constantly aware of.



It's not a stupid question. It's actually a very relevant and important question. My answer is: Often you won't know unless they tell you in explicit terms. That is assuming you are like me. If you're not, then... I don't know.

Thing is other people won't perceive your behavior as the consequence of social and communication impairments. They will perceive intentions behind the way you communicate that will not reflect how you think or what you think about. You might think you're explaining something clearly. The person you're talking to may decide you're being evasive and trying not to answer a direct yes/no question. That one happened to me recently and nearly got me hospitalized.

I can usually sense it myself. But how I sense it is like trying to explain the colour blue to someone who is colourblind to blue, it is very complex and impossible to explain. When I do explain what I mean about sensing if I've made a social faux pas or if I have misinterpreted social cues, people always reply with ''but that's probably you just thinking that, it might not be true, you might make 100 social misinterpretations a day and not know, blah blah blah....'' but I know that I can sense this sort of thing, and only other people who also have these unexplanable sense will probably know what I'm saying.

Hmm, this is really interesting. And thanks Verdandi for the link to the other thread - I spotted it once before and started reading, then lost it and couldn't remember what it was called. I shall continue.

In reference to

Is this 'puzzled' as in

1. 'these people are all pulling faces at each other and making noises about something to do with the weather and I have no idea what language this is or what's going on'

OR

2. 'these people are discussing the weather because that's what acquaintances do to break the ice and I get that, but it does nothing for me, I can't think of anything interesting to say and I don't see the point - it's so false'

OR

3. [something else entirely]

? Or could any combination of these apply to different people on the spectrum?

Last edited by Filipendula on 21 Jun 2012, 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, when I say constantly aware of, I don't mean that I always know when I'm doing something socially off. I am aware that I do a lot of things that are socially off and know what they seem like to me, but often I'll still do them because knowing doesn't always mean being able to do anything about it.

Well, that's certainly true. I often know that I'm being a bit abrupt or clipped, but I can't stop myself. But most of the time I feel like I communicate completely naturally, though I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

However, one thing I have noticed recently, is that I'm more clipped when in the company of my boss. He and I don't have a great relationship (almost entirely his fault) and he tends to be quite awkward himself and certainly doesn't mince his words. He's not generally antagonistic and he's never agressive, but when he's present at a meeting I suddenly feel like I can't put on the graces that I usually would for other people. I become abrupt and matter of fact with everyone and particularly him, I watch myself doing it and I can't change my tone. It's almost as though I usually pick up the atmosphere from those present and mimic that in my behaviour so when he turns up it spoils everything. Does this ring any bells at all or is this just me and my boss and our wonderful dynamic?

Last edited by Filipendula on 21 Jun 2012, 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

I can't really hide when I am annoyed with or do not like someone. That does sound similar, although I can't say I am clipped and abrupt quite so precisely.

It is more 2: chit chat does nothing for me - let's talk about something substantial and not be so fake, ok?
It was also figuring out that I was "out of the loop" as far as knowing what people felt, what they thought, what was going on situationally, and how to know how to respond. Sort of like - I don't know why people are suddenly laughing at what she said....oh, she was being sarcastic. Or, why do people like her? What's so special about her? What is the social status quo and how does it work? I'm oblivious to all of this...
It was knowing that no one shared my perspective, such as "why is it so important to talk about weather when we meet up? Do you just get some kind of social high from discussing how much it rained today? Well, that's stupid. Why don't we talk about stuff that matters?"
No one else thinks like this. Therefore, I'm isolated.

Am I making sense?

You're being told about it at a very early age. Your family members and caregivers will try to correct your (natural) behavior in a more or less gentle way and will also, depending on their attitude, tell you in more or less kind words that you're different and not what they had expected you to be.

Furthermore, usually other children are going to point out that you're strange, seen from their perspective. For instance, if you develop approximately at the age of six the impression that the other kids have chosen the nickname Moron or Freak for you. Another pretty foolproof sign is when you're being bullied for no obvious reason and adults watching it seem to understand the bullies, not you, the victim.

You make a lot of sense! Though I have no idea if I'm Aspie or not, I definitely subscribe to no. 2 on my list. Long before considering Aspergers I remember quizzing my partner relentlessly about why on earth I should have to discuss the weather with anyone, especially not strangers at bus stops. (Mini rant: Living in the UK, where we're surrounded by weather everyday that is renowned for never being good enough, I really think we'd do best to give it the cold shoulder.)

But the second half of your post also rings true a little. This thing of always being one or two steps behind, as though you've come into the conversation half-way through except that you haven't, it's just that everyone else is building on prior shared experiences/attitudes.

Is it possible that this can change though? I remember as a child it seemed that everyone around me was forever discussing the soaps Neighbours and Home & Away. I'd never even tried to watch either and treated their discussions with disdain which often found me standing alone in the lunch queue whilst conversations continued over my head. Then, from about the age of 8 I had a friend who I would often go home with. Her mother would put us both in front of the TV with a pile of food and thus I discovered Neighbours and ended up watching it daily, mindlessly for many years thereafter. Finally I understood the discussions in the playground (though admittedly I don't actually remember if I joined in at all) and so I always assumed it was down to my slightly eccentric parents that I've never been au fait with pop culture rather than that I don't pick up on trends as easily as I should. I really don't know - I've never really questioned these things before since the issues I have are so minor compared with what many on here describe.

From my experience, people tell you. Before, I had no fricken clue. Even when I read about AS in high school, I still had no clue I had that trouble. I didn't even know what a social cue was. I just assumed people were mean and liked treating me differently and discriminating me and getting mad at me for no reason and expecting me to be a mind reader. I used to say to people, even to my own mother "how would you know, you can't even read their mind?" and asking them did they ever tell them that or how do they know without them telling them. Now I just assume it must be body language they are reading and I don't pick up on that stuff.


I never put it together when I was reading about AS so it amazes me how other aspies can read on it and know right away that is the problem and they don't read that stuff. Mom never told me I had these problems. All I notice is she is more direct with me but I just thought that was the way it is for everybody and I was taught in my childhood people cannot read your mind so you must say how you feel and what you want and say what is bothering you. Apparently I took that too literal.

I can relate to all this but it still didn't tell me I had these issues with AS. All I knew was that it was common in aspies to get bullied and singled out and the teachers side with the bullies and they are also seen as rude or mean or weird and other labels. Plus my mother would point out what I was doing wrong to cause the teasing so she would tell me what not to do. It was only with behavior.

People have told me what they have observed over the years and that is how I know. It's also how I have learned certain social cues as when I have been told I was off on my reading of a situation or that it seemed someone was attracted to me and I didn't pick it up I have always asked how they could tell.

I bet another hint is when it seems okay for people to do something but whenever you do it, it's a crime. Another clue that you misread social cues. I still didn't figure this out when I was seeing this with me, I just assumed I was being treated different.

I also wonder if this is an aspie thing that when people do stuff to you, you have no idea they are being mean or that they are wrong with their actions but you do it thinking it's okay because they did it. I did this a lot as a kid. My mother always had to figure out first what caused to me act a certain way before punishing me. If it was just something I learned, then she would give me the talk about it, no punishment. I bet next time I would be punished if I did it again because I now knew better.

I think your mother was in the wrong to characterize you as doing wrong. I know you accepted that characterization, but whatever you did didn't force anyone to bully you. No one was compelled. They could have ignored you and gone off to do something else, you know?