Differences in females with AS

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Hello all,

I'm interested in hearing your views (I guess this is a question to diagnosed females with AS) on how your AS traits differ from the accepted male presentation.

I am seeking diagnosis of AS (for both myself and my 2 daughters) and I am having problems because of this area with regard to my own. I've done a lot of internet research (some very bona fide resources, others, hard to know!) where females are either misdiagnosed, diagnosis is missed etc. and the tools developed have been heavily geared towards the male presentation which has caused issues. For instance, apparently females are less obvious in their collecting habits as they may be less 'unusual' and more gender relevant and so be missed, females can be more passive in their presentation, and they are also better at learning skills and masking traits than males (as per the research I've read in quite a few places).

My question is, were you initially misdiagnosed with another condition? Or perhaps you were assessed and they said you didn't have it, but later on you were reassessed and correctly diagnosed with AS (and what did you have to do to get reassessed). Anything along those lines I'd be really grateful to know. Also, did you have any issues regarding the Theory of Mind element? Did you come across as socially OK which masked a very big different underneath the 'facade' or persona? Anything along these lines.

Many thanks.

I recommend the book "Aspergirls: Empowering Females with Asperger Syndrome" by Rudy Simone.

I am 29 and have slipped under the radar my whole life as just being eccentric and overly emotional. I have self-diagnosed myself recently and am pushing for an official diagnosis, but my psychologist is not sure that that will actually benefit me, but she agrees with me that if I adamantly believe that I fit the bill that I am most likely on the spectrum.

Reading this book was like reading my life story and it literally gave me goosebumps at times.

Tony Atwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's" was also quite chilling although there were some Aspie male traits that I had trouble seeing where I exactly fit into. For example, my special interests have always been intense, but they have been interests that NT's could accept as being typical of a young NT girl--only pretty intense. (In second grade, I had an astonishing knowledge of astronomy and geology for a 7 year old.) I could not accept being merely mediocre at anything--or I just didn't want to do it--and I really believed that being the best at things would help others accept me. In retrospect, this came off as arrogance.

I was a skilled little actress--another common trait for aspie girls. I've literally "acted" my way through life and fooled about everyone doing so although some people have been suspicious and seemed to "just not like me" for some reason that I could not figure out and they probably couldn't put their finger on either. An example of acting: when I pick up a telephone at work--something I hate--I always put on my customer service voice and face. People in the same room as me have commented that it is funny how I completely switch gears when the phone rings.

As far as other things that I have been diagnosed with... GAD and depression. I've been on anti-depressants since high school. I do feel that they help me though. Everytime I've decided to try being off of them that has turned out to be a bad move. I have also been diagnosed with many gastric problems since I was a child although the recommendations have always been pretty unhelpful: "take fiber", "take anti-acids", "let's treat the ulcers"...

I have major problems with melt-downs and that is what has driven me to want to be diagnosed and helped. Even as a young child I remember being very upset that my parents were punishing me for having "tantrums" when they felt completely out of my control and I just wanted someone to help me make them stop. Losing a pencil at school would send me into hysteria and hyperventilation. In the last year, I've "lost it" in the mall because a cell phone salesman made a snide comment to me; my fiance (now husband) was with me at the time and was completely bewildered and begged me to "stop doing this to myself". Then, not completely understanding myself why these melt-downs happen, I would be really angry and spiteful towards myself... I have a guilt complex and apologize constantly to people for things that are not my fault, but somehow I feel that they must be tied to me somehow. Reading more about Asperger's is helping me explain to myself why I have melt-downs and feel more empowered to make positive changes for myself.

Good luck to you and your two daughters, Whirlingmind. You are lucky to have each other.

It is very hard being an AS female.
I went for evaluation last year, and the psych said that I do have Asperger's, but he didn't give me a diagnosis certificate.
I still wonder why.

Some females with AS might be better at learning social skills and masking traits, but that does not apply to all of us. It seems my differences have always been pretty obvious. I clearly did not come off as socially ok considering all the bullying and ostraciszm I received from the other students and even some narcissistic teachers who I think saw me as a threat because I 'wouldn't' conform.

Although sometimes I do wonder if I really have Asperger's or am I just highly gifted.

I didn't find the book Aspergirls any more relevant than any of the other other published literature about AS/ASDs.

My personal experience of being a woman with an ASD is that it is a bit more subtle than in men, but other than that pretty much the same. I was always quiet and passive, and used to "fake" it a lot to try to fit in but rarely managed to get it right – I always thought I was doing a better job of it than I really was. Other than that I have the same traits/symptoms as a man with AS or other high functioning ASD including things that are not behavioural such as lack of facial expression, speaking quietly and fast, lack of intonation in my voice (none of which I realised applied to me until I was assessed).

I was diagnosed and treated for depression and anxiety (unsuccessfully with anitdepressants) prior to my diagnosis with ASD. My psychiatrist now says that I do not have depression - and probably never did - but that the anxiety is definitely there, is part and parcel of the ASD and my behaviours with respect to the anxiety led to the depression diagnosis.

After my diagnosis with ASD I was also given a diagnosis of Emotional Dysregulation Disorder which may be directly related to the ASD or due to Borderline Personality Disorder. (I prefer to believe the former but that is because I really don't like being labelled with BPD because of the stigma attached to that diagnosis).

I think the question you should ask yourself is not how it presents differently in women but how it presents in you in relation to the diagnostic criteria.

AS males and AS females are different to a certain extent, just like NT males and NT females do. Generally NT men seem to like sport-related hobbies and interests, where as generally NT women seem to like fashion and magazines. I'm only generalizing here, I'm not saying every NT man likes this and every NT woman likes that, but just saying that's how conformity seems to go, so there is a certain conformity that splits slightly between AS males and AS females too. I only know one AS male and one AS female (both friends of mine) but although, yes, everybody's different and everything, but my female friend is more able to hide her AS than my male friend. I'm not justifying that too much because they are the only other two on the spectrum I have met, but I am just using them as an example. I'm AS female myself and I can hide my AS much more than my male friend can. I can hide it when walking and even talking, and I may get anxious inside when completing mundane tasks out in public but I don't always show it, and even if I did it'd just show that I am shy or nervous, it wouldn't tell the world that I am Autistic. I don't do things like having a meltdown in public when something overwhelms me. I just tut or mutter quietly under my breath, squeeze my hands up tight in my pockets, and walk away if I can. That's the most I do when overwhelmed or annoyed.

Also (not sure about other females with AS here), before the age of 4 I was like any typical toddler. Even if traits did show, they obviously weren't anything to speak of or weren't noticeable enough to concern my parents. When I started school (on the first week) my behaviour did stand out from the rest because apparently I was ''frightened'' of school and behaved differently to the other kids (not sure why, since I attended preschool fine and interacted with other children fine for my age, I even remember doing it). But my mum said to the teachers that I was all right before I started school, and so that was why she was quite shocked at my sudden altered behaviour soon after I started school, for a child who had developed so typically in the first 4 years of life.

I was not diagnosed till May of this year. I have suspected I was somewhere on the spectrum since I was 15 and started having many age inappropriate meltdowns though. Last school year was my senior year of undergrad and it got to the point in the spring semester that I just wanted an answer. I referred myself to CAPS(Counseling and Psychological Services) on campus for assessment. From what I've read this is not uncommon in females with Asperger's. I read that a lot of times we won't get diagnosed till we notice our own differences and refer ourselves for diagnosis. Since I started suspecting at age 15 I started actually keeping track of behaviors that matched the criteria for ASD. For example I have intense obsessions, I tend to have my routines and really don't like change, once I start talking about my special interests it is like until I have said all the information I know and need to say I can't stop like I'm a radio stuck on a loop, and of course there are the meltdowns. If any of these things listed above or any other symptoms mentioned as replies sound like you and your daughters I encourage getting a diagnosis. I am very proud of my diagnosis as I see all forms of autism as a gift, but i do realize this feeling definitely doesn't apply to all on the spectrum. Good luck.

Have you seen the two tables that detail female Aspie traits on this site?

I certainly found them helpful in understanding myself a bit better.

Hi Scubasgirl, thanks for the book recommendation. I've actually realised since at least 5 years ago that I have Asperger's. But I only discovered the existence of AS when I was researching possible causes for my eldest daughter's behaviour. Since that time, my youngest has manifested a huge amount of traits too (very difficult with meltdowns at the moment). I've read one of Tony Attwoods books, forgotten the name. I know what you mean about the 'acting', I feel as if I put on a persona when I have to deal with people, or on the phone (and I have gastric problems too!). I'm very lucky to have my girls, but it's so stressful a lot of the time, whilst I may understand why they act the way they do, I can't deal at all with the tantrums and meltdowns because I have a lot of sensory issues and anxiety and I just want to run away, I'm therefore not the best person to help them with their issues. Good to read your experience.

Hi jamieevren1210, I had 2 assessments (without testing) two and a half years ago as a result of which, they stated I had overlap with autistic spectrum behaviours but (here's where my persona did me wrong) that I apparently had sound theory of mind and therefore couldn't get the full DX. I strongly believe they got it wrong, and have since had a non-clinical assessment that found that I do indeed have it, so now I will have to fight to get reassessed.

Hi Sweetleaf, thanks for your reply.

Hi YellowBanana, I was always quiet and passive too. I spent long periods alone in my room reading as a child. Apparently I was also such a passive baby that my parents took me to the doctor because they thought I was deaf! I have a lot of emotional dysregulation, I've always said about myself that I feel everything in extremes. I was watching a sad film a few weeks ago and I was literally sobbing out loud uncontrollably at it. I get lows pretty easily too, and have at various times had anti-depressants which have never helped solve why I felt like I did. The speaking fast thing too, OMG people have been gobsmacked at the speed I talk, but it's because my brain works at that speed too (hence my username!)and when I have a lot to say I have to get it all out. Your final point is a good one, I do fit all the criteria, and all the tests I've taken (including AAA, EQ, SQ, AQ, BAP etc.) all say I have it, but I think the criteria are very specific and everyone with AS presents their own degree of affectedness in each category. I guess the challenge is showing how it displays in me.

Hi Joe90, thanks for your input, really interesting to read your story.

Hi slave, I guess we're all out there analysing ourselves as to how we fit the AS world and how we compare to the NT world.

Hi horsegurl4190, yes that's what happened with me, I have felt my life feeling like an alien amonst others, putting my foot in it, alienating people, getting offended by people, having sensory issues and need for routine etc. etc. and having been told I was difficult, blunt, pedantic etc. by people and feeling crap as to why I was so awkward, then finding a reason as to why, and trying to then get myself DX.

Hi Bunnynose, no I haven't seen them, I will have a look at your link, thanks.

Thanks everyone, interested to hear any others too.

Hi again Bunnygirl, for some reason the url for your link only came up when I was in reply mode. I have looked at the first table, and virtually every single thing on there describes me exactly. One main difference was that I do like the grooming aspect and always have, I like to wear make-up and do my hair but I have never followed fashion. I'm not a savant, although I have an extremely good artistic eye so hence draw very well (untrained other than school art lessons) and self-taught myself to read at age 4. I can't say I prefer the company of animals as I haven't had the exposure (never was allowed pets as a child and I live in a city), although I can say I don't like most people much and find the way they behave and talk unpleasant in a lot of ways. The thing about injustice (and morals with me) are huge with me too. I have wondered at times if I should have been a lawyer! Really helpful site, I did access it a few years ago and have a list of traits from it but this updated site is even more useful.

My symptoms were more pronounced or obvious (I hope that is the right word) than the other people are describing here. I was not quiet and passive but loud and obnoxious. I used to stand up and yell at the other children to follow the rules (I used to be the class police(girl). I would vocal stim a lot , walking around in circles and talking to myself and repeating memorized story books at home or I would replay the story books in my head but talk aloud while twirling a string in front of my face (and scrunching up my face to play with it.......it was a very obvious , weird looking stim). I would not relinquish this string at school or if forced to I would find string in a storage cabinet (or somewhere) and stim during class while talking to myself, and tuning out the class. I would run out of the lunchroom with my hands over my ears and wander around the hallways. I threw tantrums when the seating arrangement in the classroom was changed and my report cards always said something about being off in my own little world" and having "unusual behaviors", and my "not liking changes in routine" from when preschool. My mom was concerned from when I was 2 or 3 years old. She says now that we got the diagnosis that when she looks back, even as an infant I had very rigid posture, didn't "mold" to her or my dad's arms when being held etc. Still, my interests were mainstream for girls by elementary school ,like popular fiction, just intense and experienced through my fantasy world. The diagnosis of AS didn't exist when I was a kid and to get an Autism diagnosis you needed delayed speech. Despite my list of problems above my verbal skills were very advanced. The AS diagnosis was introduced when I was 10 years old and I was diagnosed with it when I was 13. Before that I had the diagnoses of Nonverbal Learning Disorder (which I do have comorbid) and Attention Deficit Disorder. My mom was referred to a specialist in anxiety by the school for me and then she referred my mom to the specialist in AS.

I'd like to add what I said in another thread about gender differences in ASD. Most of it is quite relevant:

I have seen statistics showing that there is a bigger gender discrepancy between girls and boys who have ASD and no intellectual disability , than there is between boys and girls that have ASD with intellectual disability (so when you look at kids with intellectual disabilities more girls have it than when you look at kids that have average or higher IQ's) this is the only thing that suggests girls are more severely affected. If you read Tony Atwood's books he looks just at people with AS (so ASD with normal or above average IQ and normal language dev.) he says that he thinks there are many girls who adapt really well socially, learn to imitate other people and so fly under the radar of the diagnosticians. He says he thinks AS is under-diagnosed in girls both because they adapt better socially (since socializing/cooperation is emphasized more for girls in our society than it is for boys) but also the symptoms appear differently in girls than in boys. He talks about how many girls (in his experience/ many years of clinical practice) seem to have less esoteric interests, girls might have a fantasy world that is very intense and they spend all their time in or be obsessed with reading fiction for example. These girls may be as impaired y their special interest (it might prevent them from engaging in the world" socializing, doing homework, becoming interested in other things but it is not the typical kind of restricted interest psych's look for when they are looking for ASD. Having said all this I know a lot of girls on here and in general with ASD do have esoteric interests and just as severe difficulty socializing, I'm just saying overall, in general in Atwood's clinical observations girls tend to (what was said above).

Hi daydreamer84, thanks for your story. What you say about intellectual disability and the level of difference makes sense. About 3 years ago I undertook the Wechsler Adult Intelligence test III (WAIS III). My scores indicate that my ability in general intelligence score (FIQ) is in the high average range and that my scores in verbal intelligence (VIQ), verbal comprehension (VCI) and processing speed (PSI) are in the superior range (I also undertook this test on a day when I was really sleep-deprived so probably would have had an even better score had I not been). I also came out in the top 3% of the population in a Mensa test, I didn't do any further education after leaving school at 16, not even A level study. I have been told by the person who undertook my non-clinical AS assessment that some people with higher than usual verbal abilities are able to mask other difficulties by having excellent verbal articulation, which fools people into making assumptions about their general presentation of characteristics. I think this, coupled with the different presentation in females led to me incorrectly not being diagnosed at my assessments.

In more recent times I've read a lot of information about the differences in females (I don't think I'm allowed to post links here, but I have a few) and the more I read the more concrete my believe becomes that I have AS.

Reg. ToM
I am AS and so is my mother (seeking diagnosis), I had to explain to my mum what imaginative play is (the area for ToM) and this is how the conversation went:

Me: I need to ask you about myself and imaginative play, pretend play.
Mum: you loved playing pretend games and dressing up
Me: Yes, but for example did I play 'tea parties', you know, little cups a tea pot.
Mum: ohh yes. It was one of your favourates. When ever I was doing the washing up, you'd join in, playing in the bubbles, pouring the water.
Me: Yes, but if I had my play tea set out, would I pretend to pour cups of tea without any water in?
Mum: No, why would anybody do that?
Me: that is what imaginative play is. Most kids who want to play tea parties - do it without the water
Mum: Ummm