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Kindertotenlieder79
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17 Aug 2012, 1:50 am

. . . when I don't want to get caught when I've done something wrong, sometimes when I don't want to hurt someone else's feelings, and sometimes when I've been caught off guard. Can anyone else relate to this? I wonder because I see so many posts on other threads with folks saying "I never lie" etc. It makes me feel like I'm an evil Aspie or something cuz I do lie from time to time. Gotta admit though, despite not being as morally upright as some of my fellow Autists, I still lie a hell of lot less than NTs; I don't give immediate misinformation to people solely to give them a quick answer they demand, I won't make up info/gossip to discredit others, I won't babble BS directions to an out-of-towner that would get them lost in the boonies just to make it look like I know what I'm talking about.



IdahoRose
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17 Aug 2012, 2:16 am

I think that anyone who says that they never lie, is telling a lie. You can't get through the social world without repercussions if you don't lie. That being said, I mostly tell little white lies so I don't hurt people's feelings, but I also sometimes lie to cover up things that I do.



outofplace
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17 Aug 2012, 2:23 am

I think most of the more socially functional people on the spectrum learn to lie from time to time. The good or evil of the lie depends on the intentions you have when you tell it. Even going from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint you can justify it as the Bible tells you not to bear false witness against your neighbor, not to never lie at all (unless I am wrong on this point and please correct me if I am.)


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dyingofpoetry
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17 Aug 2012, 2:30 am

I talk about this a lot!

Keep in mind that the inability to lie is NOT part of the diagnostic criteria. Lower-functioning autistics may not be able to lie well, even if they think of doing so, but Aspergians can often lie quite well. I know, because I'm good at it if I need to cover my butt, spare someone something hurtful, or just to make up a good story for conversation. Also, I'm a writer and certainly we have enough imagination to make things up! But....

...most Aspies I know just prefer NOT to lie. It's just so much easier and simpler to tell the truth and I agree with that 100%! If everyone around me really preferred the truth and could handle it, I'd much prefer to never lie at all!


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Verdandi
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17 Aug 2012, 2:55 am

I can lie, but I am terrible at it. As in apparently the fact that in one particular context I can lie very well (playing a specific character in a roleplaying game) surprised the hell out of friends who knew that I was a terrible liar.

There are multiple reasons it's easier to lie while playing a fictional character living in a fictional world, too, and a lot of those simply can't apply to me as a real person living in the real world. Also, several social skills I learned in RPGs are only applicable to the characters I was playing at the time and I can't generalize them to real world social interactions.

I believe Tuttle when she says she can't lie. I do not see any point to lying or exaggerating about that.



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17 Aug 2012, 3:04 am

I generally tell the truth but do tell the occasional white lie. I'm terrible at telling lies anyway - maybe due to being an Aspie, people can generally tell when I tell a lie anyway, so I've learned not to lie. Besides I always find the truth easier to state, even when it is a painful truth. Lies are not only dishonest but they take more effort.

Even in the workplace I found it was actually respected by my boss to tell him outright if I ever screwed up with something - but I would always have a solution or work-around ready at the same time. Lying in the workplace or trying to shift blame, or trying to do a cover-up is a good way to be hated or mistrusted by your colleagues; it also isn't good for one's promotion prospects. Lying to cover your ass can do your ass a lot of harm if the truth subsequently emerges!

Sometimes I'm "economical with the truth" though - no need to shoot myself in the foot unnecessarily! :lol:



Jasmine90
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17 Aug 2012, 3:54 am

Everyone lies, anyone who says they don't, is doing quite the opposite.



StevieC
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17 Aug 2012, 4:22 am

if your bum looks big in something, you can be sure i'm gonna tell you your bum looks big. thing is, i genuinely rarely think anyone's bum is big, so no reason to lie. :D


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17 Aug 2012, 4:46 am

Lying isn't evil, you shouldn't feel evil. Its human. I said I was a good liar on here and got accused of being evil by some twat. Even though I also said I hate BS and I am deeply honest.

I'd explained I learnt to lie to stop my parents ridiculous, over the top, worrying about me. I learnt to lie and gave them their peace of mind. That's pragmatic. I'm nice, not evil.

Its the murderer at the door thing, aint it? Kant was wrong.

And I know for a fact that Aspies lie. An all sorts of lies too. The big amoral "I'll do what I want and cover it up" ones, the white "protecting others feelings" ones, the "omissions" and the posturing "it makes me feel better to puff myself up" ones.

Just on average, less than many NTs, but not less than all. There are many decent NT people out there who are fundamentally honest, and independent thinking.



SpectrumWarrior
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17 Aug 2012, 4:50 am

I've always had a problem of being too honest. I remember when I was younger I would get confused at how much NT's would contradict the principles of their facade, mostly little stuff that other people didn't seem to notice. After enough discrimination I learned to lie too though. Of course I didn't know I was being discriminated because I wasn't aware I was an aspie. It was mild enough that I adapted to being strange but accepted.

On a positive note, being an unidentified aspie I was able to server in the Army. I can honestly say I almost felt normal while in the Army. I performed as a soldier so there was little ammo for NT's to use against me and there's enough of a diversity of people anyone can find someone to get along with. As an infantryman you don't have to be sociable, you just gotta be able to shoot good and follow orders, thinking was optional.

Now though, having recently confirmed my condition and they way it has affected my life, I wouldn't think twice about lying to an NT for self-preservation. Whether or not the lie would be good enough to be believed is another story.



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17 Aug 2012, 4:54 am

outofplace wrote:
Even going from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint you can justify it as the Bible tells you not to bear false witness against your neighbor, not to never lie at all (unless I am wrong on this point and please correct me if I am.)


Romans 1 lists lying as a sign of a 'depraved mind', along with gossiping, being arrogant, being boastful... But then it says in Romans 2 that that is why people shouldn't judge one another, because we're all sinners. I'm not a Christian but my understanding is that Christians vary in how much authority they give the Bible and even in whether they believe in sin. So, I have heard some Christians say "you should never lie, it's a sin" and others say "it depends on the circumstances". I'm trying to avoid starting a debate on the ethics of lying, I just want to share that part of the Bible with you.

I got into a lot of trouble with lying when I was much younger. Mainly because I was really rubbish at it. But I wasn't much better at being honest either. I was brutally honest without meaning to be. I'm not sure which was worse, but I now try to avoid both.

The biggest problem I have with being honest is that other people have taken advantage of it. I have been asked inappropriate questions and people have used my answers against me.

People sometimes don't want the truth when they ask questions (like "how are you?"), which is difficult to manage. Also, I learnt that there is often an 'expected answer' and you have to guess what it is. If you don't want to give the expected answer you have to be diplomatic. I'm rubbish at diplomacy.



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17 Aug 2012, 5:12 am

I lie a lot when caught off guard also on the phone ill lie without even thinking about it.



Ilka
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17 Aug 2012, 6:17 am

IdahoRose wrote:
I think that anyone who says that they never lie, is telling a lie. You can't get through the social world without repercussions if you don't lie. That being said, I mostly tell little white lies so I don't hurt people's feelings, but I also sometimes lie to cover up things that I do.


That is not precisely true. I have found you can always find something nice to say without it being a lie or subtly change the subject. I am not an Aspie, but I am married to an Aspie guy who never lies (really) so I had to learn not to lie. At the beginning it was really hard, but now telling lies is the difficult part, that's why I have developed methods to avoid it. Our 12 years-old Aspie tries not to lie, but she has the same problem: she lies when she's done something wrong. We are trying really hard to take that habit away, because it is better to face your mistakes. We will find out eventually anyway, and we wont be able to trust her again, so it is better to tell the truth.



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17 Aug 2012, 6:46 am

I think everybody lies, too. I'm like Verdandi, in that i'm a terrible liar. I can tell a lot of the times when somebody is saying something that's not true, but I've learned not to call them on it. (when I was a kid I was told I was nosey, rude and insensitive.) And I find a lot of times I will say things that are untrue, for me, when I'm put on the spot and I'm trying to please someone, or to be agreeable....sometimes I need a bit of time to figure out how I really feel about something. Lying is complicated!



outofplace
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17 Aug 2012, 7:51 am

Indy wrote:
outofplace wrote:
Even going from a Judeo-Christian viewpoint you can justify it as the Bible tells you not to bear false witness against your neighbor, not to never lie at all (unless I am wrong on this point and please correct me if I am.)


Romans 1 lists lying as a sign of a 'depraved mind', along with gossiping, being arrogant, being boastful... But then it says in Romans 2 that that is why people shouldn't judge one another, because we're all sinners. I'm not a Christian but my understanding is that Christians vary in how much authority they give the Bible and even in whether they believe in sin. So, I have heard some Christians say "you should never lie, it's a sin" and others say "it depends on the circumstances". I'm trying to avoid starting a debate on the ethics of lying, I just want to share that part of the Bible with you.

I got into a lot of trouble with lying when I was much younger. Mainly because I was really rubbish at it. But I wasn't much better at being honest either. I was brutally honest without meaning to be. I'm not sure which was worse, but I now try to avoid both.

The biggest problem I have with being honest is that other people have taken advantage of it. I have been asked inappropriate questions and people have used my answers against me.

People sometimes don't want the truth when they ask questions (like "how are you?"), which is difficult to manage. Also, I learnt that there is often an 'expected answer' and you have to guess what it is. If you don't want to give the expected answer you have to be diplomatic. I'm rubbish at diplomacy.


I went through Romans 1 (starting at verse 28, where your quote came from) and I didn't see anything about lying, at least not in the general sense. Maybe it's not listed in the NAS translation though. However, the point I see is that of trustworthiness. You can tell a few white lies and still be trustworthy. By white lies I mean things like not giving a fully honest answer about your opinion on someone's hair style, etc., not something intended to defraud someone. Plus, I doubt scripture would hold anything against you if you had to lie to protect the life of an innocent third party. I guess that the principle I take from it is not to lie in order to be self-serving.

Here would be an example: If you knew someone intended to kill another person and they asked you where they were and you knew, yet you did not tell them the truth, would that make your actions evil? Of course not. However, if you lied to someone and told them you were dying in order to get them to have sex with you than yes, that would make your actions evil. One action is looking out for the well-being of another person and the other is self-serving.

It's important to note that Christian Scriptural interpretation is done by trying to find the overriding principle rather than taking it in a 100% literal sense all of the times. This is different from, say Islam where the Qur'an is only to be read as 100% literal with no wiggle room for interpretation by the individual. (or at least that is my understanding of how it is dealt with in Islam. If I am incorrect than I apologize. I mean no offense.)


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