Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Sidmor
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 107

15 Sep 2012, 8:50 am

The Autistic and the NTs have certain inherent neurological differences and their reflections on behavior and motives are the primary cause of why the Autistics generally have difficulties in the Neurotypical world and are often discriminated against.

Do you have personal experience of Autist-only groups? Have they usually been positive? I was just wondering whether an Autist-only society, where we could live amongst individuals of the same neurotype, could be sustainable. If so, obviously offering us a permanent residential community could prove the best alternative to deal with our difficulties (most of which, I believe are caused by inabilities to conform to the Neurotypical ways due to differences in neurology, rather than being objectively defective).
_____

Also here are some of the possible effects of the Autistic neurology on the culture of "Aspergia":

1. Eye contact is avoided. Some of the Aspies conditioned in the Neurotypical ways might do this though.

2. Aversion to excessive stimulation. Due to the insensitivity to visual, audial or kinesthetic stimulation often associated with Autism, certain precautions for these stimulations are taken. These include: preference for indirect lighting instead of bright fluorescent lights, lower volume and more peaceful music in places where it can be heard (bars, etc.).

3. Gender neutrality. Aspies are known to care little for gender differences. It is rather common for Aspie females to wear "male clothes" because practicality is valued over aesthetics. Even unisex toilets might be common in Aspergia, but they would not hold ulterior cultural/taboo meanings that they do in the Neurotypical world.

4. Groups are formed based on interests rather than family ties. They are also smaller than the Neurotypical groups usually are.

5. Certain societal clichés present amongst Neurotypicals are not as strongly present amongst Autistics.

6. The sex drive of the Aspies is generally lower, sexuality is not pronounced in the same way as it usually is amongst the Neurotypicals.



onks
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 490
Location: Finland

15 Sep 2012, 9:13 am

Sidmor wrote:
The Autistic and the NTs have certain inherent neurological differences and their reflections on behavior and motives are the primary cause of why the Autistics generally have difficulties in the Neurotypical world and are often discriminated against.

Do you have personal experience of Autist-only groups? Have they usually been positive? I was just wondering whether an Autist-only society, where we could live amongst individuals of the same neurotype, could be sustainable. If so, obviously offering us a permanent residential community could prove the best alternative to deal with our difficulties (most of which, I believe are caused by inabilities to conform to the Neurotypical ways due to differences in neurology, rather than being objectively defective).
_____

Also here are some of the possible effects of the Autistic neurology on the culture of "Aspergia":

1. Eye contact is avoided. Some of the Aspies conditioned in the Neurotypical ways might do this though.

2. Aversion to excessive stimulation. Due to the insensitivity to visual, audial or kinesthetic stimulation often associated with Autism, certain precautions for these stimulations are taken. These include: preference for indirect lighting instead of bright fluorescent lights, lower volume and more peaceful music in places where it can be heard (bars, etc.).

3. Gender neutrality. Aspies are known to care little for gender differences. It is rather common for Aspie females to wear "male clothes" because practicality is valued over aesthetics. Even unisex toilets might be common in Aspergia, but they would not hold ulterior cultural/taboo meanings that they do in the Neurotypical world.

4. Groups are formed based on interests rather than family ties. They are also smaller than the Neurotypical groups usually are.

5. Certain societal clichés present amongst Neurotypicals are not as strongly present amongst Autistics.

6. The sex drive of the Aspies is generally lower, sexuality is not pronounced in the same way as it usually is amongst the Neurotypicals.


I think all your points have some truth, but, however, somethings are different I think

1. Eye contact,I dont think that it is really avoided, it is just not reasonable form of communication. When I tried to keep eye contact sometimes throughout the conversation it felt really unpleasant and I could not focus. But I would not say that it is generally avoided. I use eye contact though, sometimes, but totally disconnected from a conversation

2. I think this is right, because if there is some additional noise this cuts the ability to communicate to a quite low level.

3. There is quite big differences between female and male aspies. There might be some small tendencies like you said but definetely there would be no common toilets

4. I think that is wrong. Families play an important role also for aspies. Parents can be quite non understanding, though, especially when they are self aspies and have lived in a different decade

5. That is a good point. No reason to peg people as whatever kind of fixed category. Only rules that make sense survive

6. I think this depends entirely on the persons



Trencher93
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Age: 124
Gender: Male
Posts: 464

15 Sep 2012, 11:30 am

Interesting idea. Doesn't sound practical - would probably resemble a Buddhist meditation retreat with a lot of individuals isolating themselves for long periods of time. Those retreats seem to require a staff to run them during the retreat. That sounds expensive. (People work all year to go on a 2-week retreat.) The concept of a hotel-like environment where a staff took care of executive-function activities (laundry, errands, etc) and provided food might work, but someone would have to pay for it.

Efforts in communal living among the general population don't seem to have a very successful track record when they've been tried in the past.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,890
Location: Stendec

15 Sep 2012, 11:37 am

Trencher93 wrote:
... Efforts in communal living among the general population don't seem to have a very successful track record when they've been tried in the past.

Israeli kibbutz-style communes seem to work okay. Then again, the ones I visited had project teams, planning sessions, group meetings, and so forth on a regular basis. A kibbutz seems to be a 'retreat' designed with a focus on the executive functions ("Chores").



paxfilosoof
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jul 2012
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 380

15 Sep 2012, 1:21 pm

Everything what you said I think it's true.
Autism is in my opinion not a "disorder" because their is a defect in the brains, like mental retardation (neurons doesn't work very well)
But just a variation, the intense world theory explain that autistics have amplified empathy, cognition, etc.
A reason why autistic have problem is for the most because of the bad fit with neurotypicals who are not for variety or variation.
This is very easy to see, when you look to history. for example: Nazi's, Homophobia, etc.

Actually Their is a plan to build a very big autism "society", but I'm not telling you more of this.
Neurotypicals will not be capable to join it. The surface is 200 football fields.



Last edited by paxfilosoof on 15 Sep 2012, 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lotuspuppy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 995
Location: On a journey to the center of the mind

15 Sep 2012, 1:21 pm

What caught my eye was the word Aspergia, which is also the name of a now-defunct forum that discusses some of these ideas. It's in German, and I can't read German, but those I know who can read German say it's valuable. If the OP can read German, it may be worth taking a look.

I have wondered the same things as the OP, and I think it could work. It certainly sounds more plausible than not, given how many of us have observed that others with Asperger's interact with each other just fine. I'd just caution you to remember, though, that Asperger's exists as a spectrum. I function more as an NT than an ASD in my everyday life (only close friends and family see the ASD side of me well), and I must say I get frustrated with some ASD tendancies others show. I imagine someone else would get frustrated with mine.



Woodpecker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,625
Location: Europe

15 Sep 2012, 1:53 pm

Well the idea of an AS community is interesting but there are some problems,

1. Should NTs be allowed to join, what if an aspie has a NT wife or husband who they want to come and live with on the AS island ?

2. How does the AS island work out laws to regulate society, the chances are that not all aspies will be able to agree on the "laws". For example I suspect that on firearms law that John Browning would not be able to agree with those aspies who are in favour of gun control laws. Also computer law and copyright issues would divide aspie island greatly.

3. How would the aspie island keep it going in terms of money, should those more high functioning persons who are able to earn money or do useful work be given a greater say in the running of the island than those who are too low functioning to do useful work or earn a living. This subject is one which I think would be a difficult one to deal with.

4. What should be done on the island with the lower functioning people, who should choose what to do with them and how best to care for them ?

5. I can imagine that there are even more issues which will be hard to deal with.


_________________
Health is a state of physical, mental and social wellbeing and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity :alien: I am not a jigsaw, I am a free man !

Diagnosed under the DSM5 rules with autism spectrum disorder, under DSM4 psychologist said would have been AS (299.80) but I suspect that I am somewhere between 299.80 and 299.00 (Autism) under DSM4.


JitakuKeibiinB
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 714

15 Sep 2012, 4:06 pm

What would we do with NT offspring? ABA? Vaccines? It's an epidemic!

Sidmor wrote:
6. The sex drive of the Aspies is generally lower, sexuality is not pronounced in the same way as it usually is amongst the Neurotypicals.

What about population aging?



btbnnyr
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,359
Location: Lost Angleles Carmen Santiago

15 Sep 2012, 4:25 pm

My college eggsperience was close to Aspergia. I went to Caltech. We had NTs to keep the place running, but other than that, it was basically Aspergia.

However, multiple terms of physical education were a graduation requirement. I don't know how this made it into Aspergia. We also had maids to clean our rooms.



unduki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2011
Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 652

15 Sep 2012, 4:36 pm

So... what? Are you going to put all the Autists in a box to keep them away from the big, bad, mean NT's?

While I find your points interesting and informative, I don't think the overall idea is practical.

Though, it might make a good book.


_________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass; it's about learning to dance in the rain.


John_Browning
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,456
Location: The shooting range

15 Sep 2012, 4:49 pm

This topic has been beaten to death. There is no consensus on what state or country is best for this, nor whether it should be communal or if the involvement in peoples lives should stop at the city council level. Then there is what should the city look like? Is it a bedroom/commuter town? Is it a business hub? Will the city be frugal or use deficit spending for social or green agendas?

You can't get ASD people to agree on these things, and a feasible compromise isn't likely.


_________________
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."
- Unknown

"A fear of weapons is a sign of ret*d sexual and emotional maturity."
-Sigmund Freud


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 59,890
Location: Stendec

15 Sep 2012, 4:51 pm

You want Aspergia?

What most describe is a contemplative, monastic life behind closed doors and high walls, far away from those annoying NTs.

Why not just join a Holy Order and be done with it?



OlivG
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 121

16 Sep 2012, 7:30 am

Fnord wrote:
Why not just join a Holy Order and be done with it?


There is a Holy Order of Aspies? Sign me up.



jamieevren1210
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 May 2011
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,290
Location: 221b Baker St... (OKAY! Taipei!! Grunt)

16 Sep 2012, 8:24 am

To put it simply, no.


_________________
Will be off the internet for some time. I'm challenging myself to stop any unnecessary Internet activity. Just to let you know...


Ettina
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,971

16 Sep 2012, 9:42 am

Why don't we start with getting our own version of Gallaudet (a university for Deaf people)?



nessa238
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jul 2011
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,908
Location: UK

16 Sep 2012, 9:50 am

"6. The sex drive of the Aspies is generally lower, sexuality is not pronounced in the same way as it usually is amongst the Neurotypicals."

Is that why we have so many threads talking about 'how to get a hot woman'? and people posting photos of themselves/their torsos on here so regularly?

A lot of people on here seem to think themselves pretty sexual from what I've observed.
So either these people are at the NT end of the scale or aspies have varied sex drives just like NTs - which is it to be??

People always want it both ways - that's for sure!