Painfully confused.

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Alright real simple, I'm having issue trying to understand the whole empathy, mindblindness issue.


I as I've said before am pretty understanding of people in certain ways.

There seems to be a huge amount of conflicting info.

Apparently I might be hypersensitive to others emotions which means I turn off these messages from others.


I know as a child I was very emotional, and very self concious at a very early age worry about what others thought.

When I was a child, I had no theory of mind. I had no idear what anyone else thought. Or even what I thought. It never occurred to me to think about what anyone else was thinking about anything either.

I started to develop some of these thoughts as I got older, maybe from puberty onwards. I started to know that other people had thoughts, but I don't know what they are thinking if they don't tell, and I don't know if what they are saying and what they are thinking are no match, and I dont' know most of their thought processes, like the social ones about social status and who likes who and other stuff that I can't put into words, so I always sound vague when I write about them.

However, I think that autistic people have moar moar moar clue what is going on inside each other's minds than we do about what NTs are thinking. It is not really like putting yourself into anyone else's shoes to think about what they are thinking. It is like having the same reactions in the same situations. Stimulus to response. Same stimuli, and NT will react in one way, and autistic in another way. I can use my autistic theory of mind to predict which educational materials will cause autistic children to have meltdowns, and I do this by having a small-scale meltdown myself. Afterwards, I can analzye the materials and my thoughts to eggsplain why.

See I donno, I seem to always been very mindful of others, and very worried what they thought. I'm starting to think, my issues are more to do with OCD but again you'll never know. I know how to impress people, I generally know how others with react to other people, what I can't do is understand how people react to me.

I have a problem with selfawareness, maybe it's narcissism I don't know..

I've never had the "theory of mind" problem, even when I was a child. I knew others had their own thoughts separate from mine, because I had my own. If they didn't, that would be illlogical to me.

However, I did have trouble understanding their feelings. I didn't know why some things were so upsetting or why some things would make people cry or get angry, if they didn't make ME get upset or sad or angry. So, I knew thay had indiviual thoughts, but I would often find what they were thinking or feeling to be surprising or confusing.

There are a few autistics who seem to be hypersensitive to others instead of oblivious; they have to shut down the input from others because it's overwhelming, just like most of us have to shut down input from other sensory organs. Maybe you're in that situation.

What it isn't:-
NTs are more accepting of those that are different (eg Aspies) because they have empathy therefore can understand how it is to be different, aswell as how it is to be each other

Aspies struggle with empathy for any other people (even other Aspies or those with other disabilities) because they lack empathy


What it is in reality:-
NTs fail to understand those that are different (eg, people on the spectrum)

Those that are different (eg Aspies) fail to understand others that are not like them

Therefore NTs are just as bad as people with neurological conditions because ''selective empathy'' is a common human trait in everyone, and most people (regardless of neuology) only prefer to feel empathy for those that have had similar experiences. (Just generalising here).


Me
Sees someone looking nervous in the street, I try not to stare hard at them because it will make them feel more nervous and intimidated, and I know that it is not very nice to feel intimidated when out in public. So I know better not to make them feel like that. Also it's none of my business why they might be looking nervous, could be for all sorts of reasons, I don't know them so I will not interfere by making them feel more nervous.

The general population
Sees someone looking nervous in the street, tries to stare at them as much as they can even though they know better that staring at a nervous person only intimidates them further and they are more than likely giving off a non-verbal message saying ''I prefer to not have your attention, as I am shy or not in the mood today''. But people seem to think it's their business as to why somebody near them is looking shy or nervous, and that they stare at them without caring at all that this is intimidating the person even further, even though it is commonly known that nobody likes being stared at for no reason.

Who's the most thoughtful?

I dont really know what to say, but this is my story. When I was a child I've always thought I was different, I couldn't understand peoples behaviours, everyone I knew said I spent most my time staring at people and it was true, I was examining their body, their faces, their voice pitches, I didn't know what to make of all this information, what do they mean. Well, everyone thought I was just a very shy person. As I grew older I started to realize that I might be missing something these humans use, something that bonds them, that makes them understand each other without even saying words, but still I couldn't figure it out even with my many efforts put into studying and examining humans, so I just continued my existence. Many years after that there was a change in me, it was quite dramatic, it nearly drove me insane, I started feeling things I wasn't accustomed to, then I learned of emotions. Because of how I felt with these emotions I was convinced that they are indeed the flaw to humanity that they will in fact drive me to insanity, so I tried to block them out as much as I can, by creating a different character in my head and replacing myself with that. With that person I would become invincible, and I was. Till recently whoever I was blocking out in my earlier years just comes bursting out with no warning , to be thrown back intro reality like that, sensing, feeling everything, it is quite alot to handle, but I'm managing now with alot of therapy and guidance.

There are still missing pieces to the puzzle though. For example I do not understand the concept of friendship, I do not understand love for "family", and I still have troubles with understanding the fact that humans do feel things. I have failed many of my relationships with women due to these difficulties, they'v always described me as detached, cold, heartless even though I've never really done anything cruel to them.

People say (including my own sister), that I might be a sociopath. I do not believe I am, I believe I was just raised in a very odd way that I never really developed some crucial things a human would need.

Imagine growing up never knowing you have Aspergers, then you act "weird/odd" around people, never having these so called "friends", then people around you start to throw insults at you, bully you physically everyday. And worse, you have no one to defend you, your parents weren't even there. Perhaps these combination of events has really confused me and crippled my development for love/care/empathy etc towards humans as I never really experienced those as a child, who knows. But with all that confusion I developed a deep hate for humans, all because of my past, but that's all gone now that things are a bit clearer. You cant rea;;y blame me for hating humanity, I was alone and couldn't really bond with anybody. I guess I just saw the worse of humanity and assumed everyone was the same.

But that is my story. Doctor's have already diagnosed me with AS. One doctor when I was a child said this kid might have AS, but my parents never looked into it as they were too busy with my brother who is autistic himself. But Many years layer two more doctors would tell me I do indeed have it. Do I believe it?, well I'm not the expert, so I guess I'll just believe what they tell me.

Apologies for my english, it is not my first language. But hey, perhaps that is another bad mixture into my past. At an early age we moved to a different country, it was quite a culture shock, maybe that had some effect to my development too.

For me, how i developed theory of mind was just to ask "how would I feel if I was on the receiving end?". Then it just went from there..

Stoek, I don’t think you are wrong at all. I feel that I am very aware or at times almost over aware of others. It is nothing paranormal - just being aware of others “being”, “needs” and “insides”. Therefore when the Intense World Theory came out, I was amazed, since it described the flipped coin phenomena I had always felt autism in me being - the backside of not being able to look being the ability to see.

Autism also manifests itself differently in every being. Maybe different areas in the brain are affected. On top of that you have your own unique personality. I happen to be somewhat childishly kind by nature, which probably makes me fit more easily in social surroundings. As a child I was very aloof and on my own world, but at home they used to still call me “the human mind”, because according to my mum I was so easy child to take care even when nonverbal – I was not needy and content by myself (probably partly because of autism) and kind by nature. Kindness and emotions are not excluded by autism. At least I have always been very emotional.

Unlike many here have stated, I like people and I have a lot of innate warmth and understanding towards them. I also suffer a lot from loneliness and have been because of that seriously down many times and lately. Though many hate the captive metaphor in relation to autism, I do feel like a captive in a glass temple I can’t get out. Or maybe the desire isn't strong enough. Maybe the understanding I feel is the wrong kind of understanding. I also seem to lack something completely mysterious (maybe some sort of a drive, initiative or some other sort of chip in the brain), that is needed to have a social life.

I accept others if they approach me and I like the company, but something is missing. I have no social life whatsoever. Unlike a person with AS I used to know in the university, I lack something deeper. I can’t really tell what it is and it puzzles me. He was socially a lot clumsier than I was, but still he had a decent social life. I am able to function socially a lot better (take my trustworthy subjective view ), but I am maybe more passive, more absorbed in some sort of hazy separateness and autistic “nothingness”. I am probably also more absent around others, kind of oblivious and people might (therefore) sense some sort of a wall. But I definitely can sense others and myself.