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whirlingmind
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02 Dec 2012, 9:59 am

...even if you say it tactfully, people never seem to want to hear the truth. It's so illogical to me that people would rather you lied to them. Is it only Aspies that see the world in an honest way? I know NTs play games, but this seems the most pointless game of all.

I know I have committed many social faux pas in the past, blurting out things which frankly would have been hurtful, because at the time I hadn't learnt that you mustn't do that (people's horrified reactions will do it!). So as an adult I have learned a bit more tact (which often involves just not saying anything rather than lie) so if you need to express an opinion, such as having been asked, why don't people want the truth, or at least the truth as you see it? Why would they ask if they only want distortions and lies?

Just want to try and understand this.


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Pondering
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02 Dec 2012, 10:47 am

A lot of people claim to want the truth, but the truth is something they can't handle in some situations. I think for some people, in some situations, just want to hear what they think. Many of these people are not seeking the truth, but what they are seeking is reinforcement of their own beliefs.


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Ann2011
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02 Dec 2012, 11:11 am

People have elaborate fantasies built up about themselves which they actually believe. Being challenged by reality is not desirable for them. I think it's some sort of survival strategy to build up fictions about yourself in your head. Because if we saw what we actually were it would be depressing.
Society does this too. For example, generally people are supposed to be kind to animals (it's even a crime to cause unnecessary suffering to an animal.) But at the same time we have factory slaughterhouses that are a nightmare . . . but try bringing this up at Christmas dinner.


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nonames
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02 Dec 2012, 12:12 pm

I don't get it either. I've been feeling really awful and they all keep asking "How are you?" I mumble something incoherent but they demand an answer.

I have to lie and say "yes, I'm fine", because if I don't and tell them the truth. "I feel like absolute crap." They want to talk, and help me or whatever, when they're the ones that are causing me to feel like crap.

For example, they've stopped believing me. Anybody who knows me knows I'm honest and wouldn't lie, but when I tell them facts (about stuff like medication) they don't believe me just because it doesn't fit their views. Like the other day I told them, "The medication is also a hypnotic, it makes you sleepy. I couldn't sleep this last week because I quit it." "I don't think that's true. Why do you keep looking stuff up on the internet? I'm pretty sure it's not the pill. You should have tried waking up earlier each day." Yeah right, after only 3 hours of sleep? Are you insane? I have just given up trying to explain that apart from it's prescribed use it also makes you sleep! and nothing has changed since the day I couldn't sleep except the pill! WHAT ELSE could it possible be?! And I started taking it again and guess what? I can sleep. But they still don't believe me.

And then I get into trouble for being brutally honest but they don't even though in the course of our argument they've contradicted everything they've ever said. They said "you were a pleasure to be around." "I forgive your rudeness because I know you don't mean it." all the time. During the argument, "You're rude all the time! I can't stand it anymore! You're always down and angry!" They never told me they felt this way, and now they're dumping it all on me?


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whirlingmind
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02 Dec 2012, 12:15 pm

I don't know...I just find an illusionary belief about yourself or a situation is pointless. Surely deep down, people really know the truth, surely there is on some level an acknowledgement that they are faking it and it's not the truth.

Are people all so utterly awful that it is too painful to know the truth! Surely not. Everyone has faults, of course there are callous and evil people out there, but the average person surely isn't that bad. If you know the truth you can do something with it, if you live a lie you aren't really living as you should.

I'm just trying to get a handle on why people would rather not want the truth, you can grow from truth, you can change from truth, all you can do with lies is pretend.

I mean at a really basic level, the stereotypical "does my bum look big in this" if they knew it did (maybe if they were told, "I've seen you look better in another style") they could avoid making themselves look how they didn't want to look. They can't change their big bum but they can dress to flatter it better.

If someone is in a relationship with an a***hole, surely it's better they are made aware that this person treats them badly, because people can have their confidence taken away by such relationships and believe the crap the a***hole tells them. Sometimes it takes an honest perspective to open your eyes.

These are just random examples, it could be anything. People get angry and defensive when told the truth if it's not a glowing and positive truth.


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Danimal
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02 Dec 2012, 12:24 pm

My therapist told me that NTs care more about sparing feelings than being honest. That's why they will tell lies to someone. I don't really understand that, but I'll take her word for it. NTs operate in a world that we Aspies have trouble understanding.



aspiemike
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02 Dec 2012, 12:30 pm

It works both ways I find for Aspies/Autistics and NT's. Everyone has their ego and they like having it inflated, not bruised. Honesty at times is hard to deal with since it will simply hurt people's feelings and make them angry. However though, being lied to for a long period of time and have the truth revealed later is much more painful to deal with for some people. I still think it all boils down to everyone's own personal ego.



Last edited by aspiemike on 02 Dec 2012, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whirlingmind
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02 Dec 2012, 12:31 pm

That seems stupid, really. To not hurt someone's feelings you could encourage them to stay in a situation that will do them long term damage.

Providing you try to be diplomatic, and don't say it in a really brutal way they should welcome the truth. As a friend, someone isn't a great friend if they allow you to make yourself look stupid, or stay in a damaging situation.


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Ann2011
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02 Dec 2012, 12:41 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
I don't know...I just find an illusionary belief about yourself or a situation is pointless. Surely deep down, people really know the truth, surely there is on some level an acknowledgement that they are faking it and it's not the truth.

Are people all so utterly awful that it is too painful to know the truth! Surely not. Everyone has faults, of course there are callous and evil people out there, but the average person surely isn't that bad.


I agree, it is pointless. I couldn't do it anyway; I just don't think that way. But I think for NTs it's as natural as breathing.

I don't think that this makes people awful, callous or evil. I think it's just the way they like to do things. If I was capable of believing in some greater version of myself, I might do it. It's just that the reality of things is always very apparent to me.

Perhaps it is a survival mechanism for living in an imperfect world.


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JellyCat
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02 Dec 2012, 12:50 pm

Because people care too much about emotions.



League_Girl
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02 Dec 2012, 1:00 pm

People are afraid of the truth and get upset with it because they can't handle the truth. Even aspies because we're all human. Plus the truth we may speak may not be the truth at all because it's our opinion and we are wrong with that opinion because we jumped to a conclusion or judged them or made an assumption. So it may not be because they were offended by the "truth" it was because you judged them and said something that wasn't true because it was you being closed minded. It's called an opinion you have.


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Vomelche
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02 Dec 2012, 1:20 pm

Honesty is counterintuitive



whirlingmind
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02 Dec 2012, 1:31 pm

League_Girl wrote:
People are afraid of the truth and get upset with it because they can't handle the truth. Even aspies because we're all human. Plus the truth we may speak may not be the truth at all because it's our opinion and we are wrong with that opinion because we jumped to a conclusion or judged them or made an assumption. So it may not be because they were offended by the "truth" it was because you judged them and said something that wasn't true because it was you being closed minded. It's called an opinion you have.


No, I'm talking about things that really are the truth (as in fact) more than anything (perhaps the e.g.s I gave were not the best ones), not a simple matter of opinion. Although I understand what you are saying. How I handle the truth, is even if I don't like it, I will face it.


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Dillogic
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02 Dec 2012, 1:46 pm

Ugly people probably aren't fans of being called ugly for the simple fact they know they are (society makes a big deal about being good looking, so you can't blame the poor social and empathetic souls for listening to it).


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anneurysm
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02 Dec 2012, 3:05 pm

Ann2011 wrote:
People have elaborate fantasies built up about themselves which they actually believe. Being challenged by reality is not desirable for them. I think it's some sort of survival strategy to build up fictions about yourself in your head. Because if we saw what we actually were it would be depressing.
Society does this too. For example, generally people are supposed to be kind to animals (it's even a crime to cause unnecessary suffering to an animal.) But at the same time we have factory slaughterhouses that are a nightmare . . . but try bringing this up at Christmas dinner.


Definitely! Also, a great example that I am surprised that most people just block out of their minds. Animals feel pain, too.


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