DSM5 ASD "Essentially Everyone Gets In"

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It is for many people who get told they have it. Certainly what i looked at first - nothing about what is understood is explained on diagnosis because they dont understand it.

I think I know what some of the differences are but thats another post another time..........

Are they the ones doing diagnoses? Because I have yet to see a psychiatrist handle diagnoses that way.

I provided the links for the other information in the DSMIV-TR beyond the basic criteria sets earlier in the thread. Here they are again:

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... for-autism

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... -aspergers

And there are some recent findings that show distinct differences between individuals diagnosed with Autism Disorder as opposed to Asperger's syndrome:

One of them is substantially higher measured levels for the ability of social theory of mind, otherwise described as cognitive empathy, among children with autistic disorder as compared to children with Asperger's Syndrome. Both groups of children were assessed as having similar measures of intelligence using Raven's progressive matrices testing.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/aurt/2012/505393/

Individuals with Asperger's syndrome have been assessed as having androgynous physical features, including 2d/4d digit ratio, whereas individuals with Autistic disorder have been assessed as having very low digit ratio's, a sexual dimorphic trait, indicating the potential of high levels of exposure to prenatal testosterone.

http://keithsneuroblog.blogspot.com/201 ... order.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11263685

Michelle Dawson found distinct differences on average in standard measures of intelligence in a group of individuals with Autistic Disorder as opposed to Asperger's Syndrome. Performance IQ was substantially higher than verbal IQ among those with autistic disorder and Verbal IQ was substantially higher than performance IQ among those with Asperger's Syndrome. This fits the general pattern of intelligence measured in individuals with Non-verbal learning disorder, a condition that most individuals diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome meet the criteria for.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0025372

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonverbal_ ... g_disorder

And here is a study that provides a meta-analysis of research on MRI's among those diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome as compared to Autistic Disorder that shows overall distinct differences in the hemispheric allocation of gray matter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3201995/

Some of the leading experts on Asperger's syndrome including Lorna Wing, Christopher Gillberg, Tony Atwood, and others believe that what you refer to as "Autism Proper" presents a different clinical picture than Asperger's, and while they agree with a dimensional approach, they believe that the subgroup labels should still be identified in the DSM5. Gillberg, Atwood, and Wing do not see High functioning Autism and Asperger's syndrome as different conditions so much as differences in diagnostic criteria in the DSMIV-TR and ICD10.

The language development delays are allowed in the Gillberg criteria and language impairments are more fully described associated with what Gillberg describes as Aspergers syndrome in his criteria. Neither Gillberg or Wing believe that the DSMIV, the ICD10, or the DSM5 last public revision sufficiently describe the "Autistic Psychopathy" syndrome that Hans Asperger's described in his case studies, or the "Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact" that Kanner described, as identified in the link below

http://foro-desafiando-al-autismo.22947 ... erg%29.pdf

http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/pdfs/shared_deficits.pdf

http://www.sacramentoasis.com/docs/8-22-03/as_&_hfa.pdf

which is stupid because they're treating both autism and aspergers like they're not that complex at all.

Here is a list of changes in the Text revisions to Autistic Disorder, PDD NOS, and Asperger's syndrome in the DSMIV-TR in 2000. There were also likely many miss-diagnoses in PDDNOS, over that 6 year period because of the identified editorial error below.







http://www.psychiatry.org/practice/dsm/ ... -dsm-iv-tr

Thanks for the studies. I'm going to have a look at my digit ratio's but I'm defiantely not androgynous, more extreme male.

I will have a look at these

Thanks

You're welcome. Most of the results in the studies are on average results and not necessarily reflective of everyone in the groups. This is part of the reason that experts like Gillberg and Wing support the dimensional assessment of a spectrum disorder with sub-labels used for the distinction of differences in identified subgroups.

There was one study showing that people with AS have more pedantic speech than people with HFA.

But im still thanking him for more than one study because that post took a lot of effort to do.

The AS group usually has a higher FSIQ than HFA group in studies, and the difference is accounted for by higher VIQ scores for AS.

There was another study showing the AS group and NT group used visual+verbal strategies to do some tasks, but HFA group used only visual strategies.

The general trend seems to be verbal differences separating AS from other autism. Not surprising, since that is how AS is distinguished during diagnosis.

Interesting.

I tend toward visual strategies, but I am verbally pedantic at times.

Is it pedantic when someone tries to insult me by calling me pedantic, and I explain why it's not an insult?

In Michelle Dawson's study that I linked, all of your comments above are substantiated, except for the FSIQ scores, as some of those with Autistic Disorder scored in the intellectual disability range in standard measures of intelligence. But even so, the visual specific strategies were greatly amplified in the result that the group of adult individuals with Autistic Disorder actually outscored the adult control group of those without Autistic Disorder, in the Raven progressive matrices, RPA, measure of intelligence. In comparison neither the group of children diagnosed with Asperger's or the group of adults with Asperger's syndrome outscored the non-Asperger's control group, using any measure of intelligence, including RPA.

I don't think so. I think that the pedantic speech in the study meant formal language. I couldn't get the full paper showing the pedantic speech though, so I dunno what eggsacly they were talking about.

The IQ studies were done specifically to differentiate AS and HFA, and the subjects did not have intellectual disability.

It seems like given the option of diagnosing an individual with Autistic Disorder or AS, that the pedantic speech that is not usually considered a clinical feature of Autistic Disorder, could potentially be the deciding factor if all other factors were given similar weight.

Gillberg, in the link I provided earlier, identified types of development delays/characteristics of language in childhood for those with Asperger's syndrome; one was associated with the hyperlexia type pattern of reading before speaking and the other was the odd prosody of speech, and pedantic use of language.

I suppose that some individuals with the hyperlexia type pattern, might have what could be considered as a significant language delay, not be as pedantic or even potentially as coherent in their use of language, and be diagnosed under HFA instead of Asperger's syndrome under the DSMIV or ICD10 criteria. It would be interesting to study that in Sweden where the Gillberg criteria is commonly used as opposed to the US where the DSMIV is most commonly used.

That is interesting to know, at least.

I've never really understood why (before the past couple of years) I could have a fairly large vocabulary, not understand what many of the words mean at all for a good part of my life, only understand that they belong in certain statements in response to certain other statements for a good part of my life, and be totally rubbish at various kinds of word puzzles. Sorry about that digression.

I do tend toward formal speech. I spent years hating contractions and slang, and even now it takes me awhile before I pick up new slang terms, although much faster than when I was younger.

I had the hyperlexia pattern and significant language delay, and I don't have pedantic speech. Most educated NTs, like professors and scientists, have much more pedantic speech than I do.

The study also found that people with AS tend to talk more about their special interests in conversation, compared to people with HFA. This makes sense to me, because I have never talked much about my special interests or been a little professor. I did not even have topic-based special interests until I became verbal enough to have them. Before then, I was obsessed with objects, not topics.