When not showing enough symptoms during childhood.

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seaturtleisland
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17 Jan 2013, 12:13 pm

chlov wrote:
I remember I showed more symptoms during childhood, and they were even worst ones, because my traits were more close to schizofrenia that to AS.


Did you ever get diagnosed with schizophrenia?



Jinks
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17 Jan 2013, 1:46 pm

I'm in a similar situation and may have an explanation, if you are in the same kind of position as me.

I have been pretty much a textbook AS person since around the time I reached puberty (at which point other children seemed to become more aware of my differences and difficulties and began to reject me). However, there weren't many red flags prior to age 10. I did experience some of the symptoms mildly before that, but nothing which was sufficient to raise any concerns with anyone. I was a very quiet, shy and obedient child and that's not behaviour which tends to lead to any investigation or diagnosis. I believe people with more passive personalities are less likely to be diagnosed in childhood, something often suggested as a possible reason female children are less diagnosed - quiet and passive autistic people are more likely to withdraw and shut down when overwhelmed, rather than shouting or having tantrums/meltdowns. The latter behaviour is very likely to make parents recognise a problem and seek help. The former may just make them pleased to have such a quiet and well-behaved child!

It may interest you to know that in the new DSM-5 criteria (applicable from May 2013) there is a new paragraph inserted which I feel applies here, and that is:
C. Symptoms must be present in early childhood (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities).
I feel that this is a very intelligent addition to the criteria. My own difficulties did not become "fully manifest" until I reached the age of high school and puberty, at which point the increased social and educational demands and expectations of others exceeded my "limited capacity" (and at every milestone in life at which increased independence and social ability is expected, my ability to cope has diminished further). My symptoms themselves didn't change as such - but external factors changed such that my capacity was no longer sufficient. That explains why what appeared "mild" in childhood is a major issue in adulthood.

I don't think this is an issue which is discussed enough, as most people want to talk about people with autism improving as they get older (as they often do when they have a support system with that aim). If you got worse, which I suspect many people diagnosed in adulthood probably did because they didn't have that support, no one wants to know about it!



whirlingmind
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17 Jan 2013, 2:23 pm

I so agree with you Jinks.

As a female, who was passive as a child this is what happened to me. I shutdown when stressed and retreated, playing alone in my room. My behaviour was fine at school because I followed the rules and I was never naughty there. Even nowadays, teachers don't seem to care if a child is passive. My youngest daughter has been DXd HFA and when she was at school (now home-educated) the teacher told me that she was withdrawn and didn't interact or speak out when she had problems, but she didn't at any time raise it as a concern needing investigating as she should have done. Why? Because her academic work was good, and they only seem to care about that.

I never initiated a friendship as a child (nor as an adult either actually) and the only friend I had as a child was the one who approached me. There needs to be more publicising about the different sub-types of Asperger's, especially with females.


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chlov
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17 Jan 2013, 2:25 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
chlov wrote:
I remember I showed more symptoms during childhood, and they were even worst ones, because my traits were more close to schizofrenia that to AS.


Did you ever get diagnosed with schizophrenia?

Not officially. But at the time of my first diagnosis the shrink at first thought I had schizofrenia, but didn't diagnose me with it because my issues were a bit milder compared to those of someone who was completely schizofrenic.



vortex
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17 Jan 2013, 3:40 pm

That's a good theory, Jinks.

You know, I just talked to my mother. For the first time ever she actually listened to what I had to say about my mental health etc. She also, for the first time ever, said that "vortex, I probably have whatever diagnosis you have because I can relate to pretty much everything you're saying." She told me the following things about my childhood before the age of 10 or so (these are the things SHE remember, from her point of view):

- I never cried. She said she remembered one day when I was crying. Besides that I never cried.
- I was wise/smart/intelligent
- I was responsible
- I was observant
- I always thought before I did things. I thought things through.
- I was very cautious
- I was very scared of things from time to time (water and insects for example)
- I didn't like to be in the centre of attention. My mum told me my teacher had called her and dad (when I was 5 or 6) and told them that I refused to participate in certain games (or something) because I was scared of being in the centre of attention.
- I had friends who I played with (Lego, role-plays, puzzles etc)
- I didn't mind people touching me and I gestured "normally" etc
- I played by myself sometimes but I wasn't a loner
- I collected a lot of things and sorted them
- I lived by many routines (because of my mother liking routines)
- I didn't get upset by changes (she said at least I didn't show it)
- I rocked from side to side at times and at times a sat down and "rolled" my arms and legs (not all the time, but sometimes)
- I started talking (words) when I was 6 months old and I talked in sentences when I was around one year old
- I could read when I was 3,5 years old
- I never shared my thoughts and feelings with other people.

What do you think? Normal NT childhood?



Aperture
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19 Jan 2013, 2:45 pm

Jinks wrote:
I have been pretty much a textbook AS person since around the time I reached puberty (at which point other children seemed to become more aware of my differences and difficulties and began to reject me). However, there weren't many red flags prior to age 10. I did experience some of the symptoms mildly before that, but nothing which was sufficient to raise any concerns with anyone. I was a very quiet, shy and obedient child and that's not behaviour which tends to lead to any investigation or diagnosis. I believe people with more passive personalities are less likely to be diagnosed in childhood, something often suggested as a possible reason female children are less diagnosed - quiet and passive autistic people are more likely to withdraw and shut down when overwhelmed, rather than shouting or having tantrums/meltdowns. The latter behaviour is very likely to make parents recognise a problem and seek help. The former may just make them pleased to have such a quiet and well-behaved child!

It may interest you to know that in the new DSM-5 criteria (applicable from May 2013) there is a new paragraph inserted which I feel applies here, and that is:
C. Symptoms must be present in early childhood (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities).
I feel that this is a very intelligent addition to the criteria. My own difficulties did not become "fully manifest" until I reached the age of high school and puberty, at which point the increased social and educational demands and expectations of others exceeded my "limited capacity" (and at every milestone in life at which increased independence and social ability is expected, my ability to cope has diminished further). My symptoms themselves didn't change as such - but external factors changed such that my capacity was no longer sufficient. That explains why what appeared "mild" in childhood is a major issue in adulthood.

I don't think this is an issue which is discussed enough, as most people want to talk about people with autism improving as they get older (as they often do when they have a support system with that aim). If you got worse, which I suspect many people diagnosed in adulthood probably did because they didn't have that support, no one wants to know about it!


vortex wrote:
You know, I just talked to my mother. For the first time ever she actually listened to what I had to say about my mental health etc. She also, for the first time ever, said that "vortex, I probably have whatever diagnosis you have because I can relate to pretty much everything you're saying." She told me the following things about my childhood before the age of 10 or so (these are the things SHE remember, from her point of view):

- I never cried. She said she remembered one day when I was crying. Besides that I never cried.
- I was wise/smart/intelligent
- I was responsible
- I was observant
- I always thought before I did things. I thought things through.
- I was very cautious
- I was very scared of things from time to time (water and insects for example)
- I didn't like to be in the centre of attention. My mum told me my teacher had called her and dad (when I was 5 or 6) and told them that I refused to participate in certain games (or something) because I was scared of being in the centre of attention.
- I had friends who I played with (Lego, role-plays, puzzles etc)
- I didn't mind people touching me and I gestured "normally" etc
- I played by myself sometimes but I wasn't a loner
- I collected a lot of things and sorted them
- I lived by many routines (because of my mother liking routines)
- I didn't get upset by changes (she said at least I didn't show it)
- I rocked from side to side at times and at times a sat down and "rolled" my arms and legs (not all the time, but sometimes)
- I started talking (words) when I was 6 months old and I talked in sentences when I was around one year old
- I could read when I was 3,5 years old
- I never shared my thoughts and feelings with other people.


Sometimes I read posts on this site that cause me to feel pretty emotional because someone, in discussing their own life, describes EXACTLY what my experience has been. Wow. Those two posts are me EXACTLY. Thanks both of you for posting them.



FishStickNick
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19 Jan 2013, 3:44 pm

I've had many of the core features of AS all my life, and members of my immediate family wonder now if I could've qualified for a diagnosis if I were a child today.

I've had special interests for as long as I can remember; I don't think I've ever made eye contact appropriately or reciprocated appropriately in social situations. I was also adverse to change as a kid (still am to an extent). I've long had many of the peripheral traits of AS, too, like some motor control issues, a large vocabulary (I learned to read early), various phobias, a tendency to melt down, a very good memory, lack of hand gestures when I speak, and so on.

But I feel like I've gotten worse in social situations as I've gotten older. I was held back a grade when I was a first-grader because my social skills lagged behind those of my peers, but I faired better with the younger group. Even then, though, by the time I was in 6th grade, I started to feel like I was falling behind again socially.

I've always been fidgety, but I think I stim more now than I did as a kid.



JellyCat
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19 Jan 2013, 3:58 pm

vortex wrote:
I have a question (sorry if it's a stupid one). Let's say someone's got all the "classic traits" of Asperger's Syndrome except there aren't enough symptoms (or whatever you want to call it) of the syndrome in that persons' childhood. What then could cause all the traits that person is now experiencing? Symptoms/traits such as:

- Social issues
- Repetitive behaviour
- Obsessions
- Sensitivity to noise
- Difficulties doing/experiencing several things at once
- Adherence to routines
- Anxiety
- Low mood
- Introversion
- Withdrawal from other people
- Difficulties focusing
- Difficulties getting started
- Resistance to change
- Poor communication (bad at showing appreciation, not talking about things and so on)
- Poor eye contact
- Compulsions/fixed ideas about how things should be (wanting things done in a certain order, certain angle etc)
- Ok with some social interaction but socially incompetent in other situations

Etc.

Not saying all people with AS experience these things and some people with AS probably experience other things as well. Anyway, what do you think?

Low self-esteem.
Depression.
Sensory processing disorder.
Obsessive compulsive disorder.
I think that having overly high self esteem could cause some of these problems as well.
Poor physical health (most likely some kind of vitamin, mineral, or hormone ect. deficiency.)
Pathological demand avoidance syndrome.
Maybe even some personality disorders?