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stevenjacksonftw7
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17 Jan 2013, 4:48 pm

These two labels are commonly confused by untrained professionals for some odd reason, and I feel the need to make a thread comparing the to show that they are hardly anything like (despite sharing some similar symptoms). There is no link between the two, and neither are the two disorders related. This is comparing the combined form of of ADHD by the way.

Similarities:
1. People with both disorders often have issues with making friends.
2. Excessive talking is present in both disorder.
3. Hyperactive behavior is common in both.
4. People with either disorder may not seem to listen in a conversation.
5. People with either disorder will often engage into dangerous activities.
6. People with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and with Asperger's Syndrome commonly throw tantrums.
7. It might appear that people in both parties will not be ignoring you while spoken to directly.
8. Rude behavior is a common highlight in both disorders.
9. Interrupting people is common in both disorders.
10. Difficulties being soothed while held are common in both disorders.
11. Irritability
12. People with both disorders may say inappropriate things at the wrong time.
13. Sensitivity Problems
14. Underachievement is common in both.

Differences:
1. Folks with the combined form of ADHD have issues with making friends since they often come as being loud, irritating, rude and disruptive. Folks with Asperger's Syndrome often have not learned social cues (not all) and get judged as being 'quirky' and 'geeky' which is why they struggle with making friends.
2. People with ADHD have no delays in understanding language at all, while folks with Asperger's Syndrome.
3. People with Asperger's Syndrome can often focus for hours. However, it's been said that the ones with ADHD who can 'hyperfocus' can actually do the same (unfortunately I don't have it)..
4. Asperger's Syndrome links to unusual obsessions, while ADHD doesn't.
5. Asperger's Syndrome by itself can link to motor coordination problems, while ADHD doesn't.
6. Reading comprehension is something that folks with ADHD struggle with, while people with Asperger's Syndrome only struggle with it if they don't understand what's going on.
7. People with Asperger's Syndrome can play quietly, while folks with ADHD often struggle with that.
8. People with Asperger's will only engage into a dangerous activity if they don't understand how it is dangerous. Folks with ADHD often engage into them even when they understand how it's dangerous.
9. While folks with ADHD may not spend a lot of time focusing on somebodies face, they have no issues with understanding facial expressions while folks with Asperger's Syndrome often do.
10. Folks with ADHD struggle with picking up on details, while people with Asperger's Syndrome excel at it.


Okay, they might be hard to tell sometimes, but the differences make it look clear on how to distinguish them.



Anomiel
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17 Jan 2013, 4:51 pm

You can have both, and can be comorbid even though you claim that there is no link. I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?

ETA: Read through it again, and I see you claim to have ADHD (re: the focus part), and you're posting in an autism forum, is this about you having been misdiagnosed? Then I guess you're the first I've heard about. Glad you got that sorted.



Last edited by Anomiel on 17 Jan 2013, 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stevenjacksonftw7
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17 Jan 2013, 4:58 pm

Anomiel wrote:
You can have both, and can be comorbid even though you claim that there is no link. I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


They're common to have with each other, but there is no link between the two. There are plenty of folks with one who have no traits of the other disorder. Also, I'm referring to inexperienced Psychologists.



Raziel
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17 Jan 2013, 5:13 pm

Anomiel wrote:
I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


It once happened to me with a shrink who toled me that I possibly can't have ASD because I went to a normal school.
She dx me ADHD-disposition with autistic like traits (whatever that means...)

Later on I was redx to HFA again.


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Anomiel
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17 Jan 2013, 5:19 pm

stevenjacksonftw7 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
You can have both, and can be comorbid even though you claim that there is no link. I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


They're common to have with each other, but there is no link between the two. There are plenty of folks with one who have no traits of the other disorder. Also, I'm referring to inexperienced Psychologists.


Okey, nicely compiled list for those not knowing the differences.

Also I don't know how much research have been done on this, but they do claim to have found a genetic link.
Of course you're right in that doesn't mean that a person with one of the conditions will have traits of both :)

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/08/11/adhd-autism-may-share-genetic-link/28528.html wrote:
Emerging research has discovered new genetic influences for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Further, the genes appear to be associated with other neuropsychiatric conditions including autism spectrum disorder (ASD).

The study by University of Toronto researchers is published in the advance online edition of Science Translational Medicine.

Researchers used microarrays (gene-chip technology) to study the DNA of 248 unrelated patients with ADHD. They specifically searched for copy number variants (CNVs), which are insertions or deletions affecting the genes. The CNVs may be inherited or occur spontaneously.

In the study, researchers found spontaneous CNVs in three of the 173 children for whom DNA of both parents were available. Inherited CNVs were found in 19 of 248 patients.

Within the group of inherited CNVs, the researchers found some of the genes that had previously been identified in other neuropsychiatric conditions including ASD.

To explore this overlap, they tested a different group for CNVs. They found that nine of the 349 children in the study, all of whom had previously been diagnosed with ASD, carried CNVs that are related to ADHD and other disorders.

The findings suggest that some CNVs, which play a pivotal role in ADHD, increase risk for ADHD, ASD and other neuropsychiatric disorders.

Most individuals with ADHD also have at least one other condition, such as anxiety, mood, conduct or language disorders. Up to 75 per cent of people with ASD also have attention deficits or hyperactivity.

“A lot of these associated problems probably arise from the fact that they are sharing genetic risk for different conditions,” said neuroscientist and senior author Dr. Russell Schachar.

The research results could be reassuring for clinicians who may see characteristics of different neuropsychiatric conditions in their patients – such as ASD-like social problems in a child with ADHD – but are concerned that they are over-interpreting these traits.

“This research reinforces the notion that their gut observation is correct,” Schachar said.



Last edited by Anomiel on 17 Jan 2013, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anomiel
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17 Jan 2013, 5:22 pm

Raziel wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


It once happened to me with a shrink who toled me that I possibly can't have ASD because I went to a normal school.
She dx me ADHD-disposition with autistic like traits (whatever that means...)

Later on I was redx to HFA again.


Wow so sorry that happened to you, what wrong thing to base a diagnosis on :( Does not sound like she knew what ASD was at all.



stevenjacksonftw7
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17 Jan 2013, 5:23 pm

Anomiel wrote:
stevenjacksonftw7 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
You can have both, and can be comorbid even though you claim that there is no link. I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


They're common to have with each other, but there is no link between the two. There are plenty of folks with one who have no traits of the other disorder. Also, I'm referring to inexperienced Psychologists.


Okey, nicely compiled list for those not knowing the differences.

Also I don't know how much research have been done on this, but they do claim to have found an genetic link.
Of course you're right in that doesn't mean that a person with one of the conditions will have traits of both :)

http://psychcentral.com/news/2011/08/11/adhd-autism-may-share-genetic-link/28528.html wrote:
Emerging research has discovered new genetic influences for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Further, the genes appear to be associated with other neuropsychiatric conditions including autism spectrum disorder (ASD).

The study by University of Toronto researchers is published in the advance online edition of Science Translational Medicine.

Researchers used microarrays (gene-chip technology) to study the DNA of 248 unrelated patients with ADHD. They specifically searched for copy number variants (CNVs), which are insertions or deletions affecting the genes. The CNVs may be inherited or occur spontaneously.

In the study, researchers found spontaneous CNVs in three of the 173 children for whom DNA of both parents were available. Inherited CNVs were found in 19 of 248 patients.

Within the group of inherited CNVs, the researchers found some of the genes that had previously been identified in other neuropsychiatric conditions including ASD.

To explore this overlap, they tested a different group for CNVs. They found that nine of the 349 children in the study, all of whom had previously been diagnosed with ASD, carried CNVs that are related to ADHD and other disorders.

The findings suggest that some CNVs, which play a pivotal role in ADHD, increase risk for ADHD, ASD and other neuropsychiatric disorders.

Most individuals with ADHD also have at least one other condition, such as anxiety, mood, conduct or language disorders. Up to 75 per cent of people with ASD also have attention deficits or hyperactivity.

“A lot of these associated problems probably arise from the fact that they are sharing genetic risk for different conditions,” said neuroscientist and senior author Dr. Russell Schachar.

The research results could be reassuring for clinicians who may see characteristics of different neuropsychiatric conditions in their patients – such as ASD-like social problems in a child with ADHD – but are concerned that they are over-interpreting these traits.

“This research reinforces the notion that their gut observation is correct,” Schachar said.


Spongebob Squarepants is an example of somebody who has severe Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, while Lisa Simpson has Asperger's Syndrome. An example of somebody with confirmed ADHD who didn't have any Autistic traits would be Bart Simpson.



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17 Jan 2013, 6:58 pm

stevenjacksonftw7 wrote:
Anomiel wrote:
You can have both, and can be comorbid even though you claim that there is no link. I've never ever before heard of it being confused, what kind of professionals are you talking about?


They're common to have with each other, but there is no link between the two. There are plenty of folks with one who have no traits of the other disorder. Also, I'm referring to inexperienced Psychologists.


There's a fairly high comorbidity of ADHD with autism, although how high varies from study to study.

Another study I've read recently (and should try to find again) indicates that a lot of people with ADHD have autistic traits, even though they do not qualify for an ASD diagnosis.

I agree with you that they are not the same thing and they are not all that similar, but there is no basis for claiming that there is no link between them, and a reasonable basis for stating that there is possibly some kind of link.



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17 Jan 2013, 7:05 pm

Quote:
They're common to have with each other, but there is no link between the two.


What do you mean by 'link'? To me, that statement is a contradiction. When I say two conditions are linked, I mean they are more common together than would be expected by chance (eg 50% of autistics have ADHD versus 5-7% of the general population).



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17 Jan 2013, 8:10 pm

My youngest was diagnosed by a GP with ADD - not hyperactive - as a child, Aspergers as a young adult. He was seen by a pediatrician for "spacing out" when he was 2 ... suspicion of petit mals - I was told "coping", but not with what ... the specialist said, look, he is doing that with me, too - "being held". He was also found to have low muscle tone. 1991 ... so I guess still under the official recognition here. I think if he was seen today he would have been clearly diagnosed. Sigh.


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17 Jan 2013, 9:27 pm

It ain't even a differential diagnosis (Lorna's paper and the DSM).



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17 Jan 2013, 11:09 pm

Not all professionals are on the ball. To give the OP the benefit of the doubt. I've had one doctor tell me i was a BPD after 1 min of conversation. After he realized i didn't like President Bush, he told me i was fine and just needed to go to school and get a job.

So some trained professionals are not good or maybe they just don't care about properly diagnosing people. Some symptoms can overlap which leads to confusion of shrinks. A good shrink would have you diagnosed by at least 2 others (total of 3) to get the various opinions.
This happened in college once... i thought it was good of them to keep of them to keep each other in check or compare notes, whatever
they need to do.

In the past i have also been diagnosed as schiztoaffective which was changed to Bi-polar, where it has remained. So it depends on who is doing the diagnosing sometimes. It seems like such a mess.

Don't despair, there are some good doctors out there though. When you find a good one, stick with them.



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18 Jan 2013, 3:34 am

Potentially relevant... here's a description of what it's like to have ADHD that someone posted to Reddit:

http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfi ... es/c7wnp37

(The bit about it raining Post-It notes makes for some nice mental imagery. :P )



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18 Jan 2013, 8:48 am

stevenjacksonftw7 wrote:
These two labels are commonly confused by untrained professionals for some odd reason, and I feel the need to make a thread comparing the to show that they are hardly anything like (despite sharing some similar symptoms). There is no link between the two, and neither are the two disorders related.

True. The fact is that ADHD is often co-morbid with Asperger's, I heard that like 40% of the people diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome also show many symptoms typical of ADHD, or vice versa, and that many people are diagnosed wth both ADHD and Asperger's, like in my case. This often makes the diagnosis more difficult.



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18 Jan 2013, 9:29 am

Ok. If there is no link between asperger's and add, why are so many people diagnosed with both? It can't just be a coinsidence.



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18 Jan 2013, 2:42 pm

Heidi80 wrote:
Ok. If there is no link between asperger's and add, why are so many people diagnosed with both? It can't just be a coinsidence.


Of course there is a link.
It's just not the same and many people don't have both.

My brother has ADHD (that's why they missdx me once with), with NO sings of ASD and I have HFA and was later toled that I clearly have no ADHD.

With the children of my cousin, it's exact same.
Also both conditions are cenetically related.


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