Mountains out of ONE misphrazed/misunderstood sentence!! !

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Roman, you must understand that you cannot ‘force’ anything upon her. If you start out on a better footing next time, then you can move on to b,c,&d. I know it seems unfair when one is shut out from the beginning. I’ve had it happen plenty of times. However, when it happens there is little chance of continuing with that person. In these cases, you must surrender your pursuit of that person and move on.

Also, there are ways to avoid mentioning Asperger’s. For one, just don’t do it. There is a proper time to reveal things of this nature and first contact is never that time. At the very most, saying something like “excuse me, I’m a little nervous” may be acceptable. But remember, over-emphasizing your social difficulties is a guaranteed way to fail. You will find yourself repeating “X” over and over again.

Dating isn't welfare. Women (and men) generally don't want to get into a relationship where the other person's needs can suck them dry. I've generally noticed that even desperate people don't want to go out with someone who is more desperate than they are.

The game of love is a complicated thing.

I personally would be totally turned off by someone that needs me.

dude you came on way too strong. Thats why this girl was creeped out.

My Advice:

MOVE ON Their are ton of other girls out there that are online. Just learn from your mistake, pick yourself up, and try again. Don't perservate on why this girl didn't want to talk to you, it is a waste of time, and that time could been use to talk to other girls.

And everyone else was right about keeping the conversation simple, and not sounding desperate. That is a real turnoff for most women. I'm going to PM something to you that might useful.

Good luck with everything,


Justin

As a bonafide female, let me give you a girl's perspective...

I mean no offense to you. I'm sure you're a really nice guy and like all of us, you're just trying to find a way to fit into the NT world. But I'll tell you straight: Your behavior was frantic, predatory, creepy and obnoxious in the extreme. If I were that girl, I wouldn't have been nearly so patient with you.

The first thing that doesn't seem to occur to you is girls on internet dating sites ALL KNOW they need to be careful about men who don't seem safe. The way you acted must have sent up red flags for her, practically from the beginning. This isn't about the little confusion over the photo. Right from the start you came on too strong with the whole religion issue and then you just got more and more out of control.

A first encounter on a dating site is all about casual chitchat. Basic introductions. It's too soon for religion or discussion of disabilities. And maybe it's too soon for physical descriptions. Maybe it's better to start by finding shared interests or something like that.

You're an adult and obviously an intelligent person. In spite of the Aspergers, you need to try to see some things: You need to consider the fact that you can't FORCE people to do much of anything. You can't force them to pay attention to you. You can't force them to answer you when you speak. You can't force them to see your point of view. Other people already have their own points of view. Why would they want to be hit over the head with yours?

Probably most of us with Aspergers get going on a topic/interest/activity and then can't seem to stop. We're a little maniacal, perhaps. We don't have a good sense of proportion. You appear to share these traits. If you don't "know when to stop" with, say, Comic Book collecting you end up with a basement full of Comic Books. If you do that with a girl you might start to seem like a stalker. You kept making the same point over and over to her, like you assumed she didn't or couldn't or wouldn't understand. She probably understood, but maybe she didn't want to keep talking to you and was trying to exit the situation without being mean. Human interaction can be pretty complicated and you're making a mistake if you think it's just "ping-pong".

Finally, all that relentless back and forth with the girl and then the truly incredible length of your initial post on this topic were way over the top and totally out of scale with the relative unimportance of the situation. So you met a girl on line. Maybe you didn't make the best impression. She turned out not to be interested. OK. The end. Is any of it really worth this kind of huge emotional investment? Take a step back. Take a couple of deep breaths. Understand that you made some mistakes. Try to learn from them. It could help you do better next time. Meeting people takes a little effort. It takes practice.

"Who in their right mind says hence?" I thought that was funny.

I agree with everything Skybar said.

I'd also like to add, the following things you said which were unnessicary.

I mean, what is she supposed to say to that? I probably wouldn't have said anything either.



This makes you come across as a liar.



That sounds like you already assume she's interested in a relationship with you, when you should just make casual conversation.

When you explained her photo was enough, I must admit, it was Quite obvious what you meant, she must be pretty dumb considering she posted the photo herself.

If she didn't respond, you should have just casually explained that you meant you had seen her photo already because she posted it on a website, not go into paragraphs of intense conversation, which would have probably made me block you rather than just ignore you.



What's with this? You don't tell someone you've just met things like that, or anyone at all. It's something you think but don't say.



This probably put her off more.



Another thing, think but don't say.

I think it was nice of her to say you could start over, if it was me you'd be blocked and deleted by this stage.

By sending her a PM after that conversation you're crossing the line into stalker territory.



What the heck is with that?

You were trying WAY to hard, and I doubt anyone would put up with the way you went on. Why were you constantly saying you don't talk to anyone? Did you want her to feel sorry for you? It probably just put her off you more.

She actually seemed pretty tolerant, if you ask me.

But I don't understand why she didn't block you if she kept asking you to leave her alone, I mean, it would seem the sensible thing to do. By not blocking you she implied that she proably did want to talk to you. I can see why you were confused there.

Right on, Hale Bopp. I like the way you think.

I feel that above and beyond anything Roman said or did, he's inadvertantly giving off a very superior and condecending vibe--like he is so much better than the girl that how dare she not respond. I'm sure that's not his intention, though.

And I also get the feeling he wants to use Aspergers as an excuse, like the world owes him something because he has a "disability". Maybe we all feel like that sometimes.

But listen, Roman: You're certainly NOT worthless. And you DO deserve a companion. I wish you the utmost success in your quest to find one. Since you're a Physicist, maybe you should try applying a little Scientific Method to the dating game. It might seem less alien to you that way.

But what do they have to lose anyway?




Yah, but I brought up a religion to ANOTHER girl who was Jewish. ACCIDENTALLY I typed it into the wrong box. Thats why I say its a ping pong. Ooops I missed a target, I typed it into the wrong box...

As for the other girl, the reason I said I was Jewish was that I wanted her to see we have something in common. I know its inappropriate to do it right from the start. HOWEVER given the fact that most people seem to ignore my IM-s since my Asperger shines through my profile, I just wanted to seize an apportunity for it to go differently JUST with that Jewish girl. After all, given that 99% of ppl ignore my PM-s (which most of the time "hi") anyway I didn't have much to lose by scaring off one more person.

But once again, as I said I WANTED to say I was Jewish to another girl. Now, when the Catholic girl read it instead and was surprised by it since she wasn't Jewish and I acted as if she were, I had to explain to her what had happened.



Yah but I couldn't tell it was too soon. Due to my Asperger Syndrome I see it as a minor detail and I wouldn't even KNOW I did anything wrong!! ! Again, thats the reason I say its a ping pong. People seem to be too overly concerned about those LITTLE things that just aren't a big deal. You see, it isn't just about physical description, I am sure I am doing plenty of other things wrong since 99% of people stop talking to me after first few sentences, but I have NO IDEA what they are. So I think it just isn't fair that I am the one who suffers as opposed to some jerk who would DELIBERATELY do something wrong and yet get all the girls he likes.




But due to Asperger Syndrome I have no idea how to have a chit chat. I have no idea what to say beyond "hi how are you" untill the other person asks me something.

Like for example there was another girl on american singles. With that other girl we clicked very well. Then we met at a restaurant. She said "its really cold". I didn't know what to answer. So I was just staring at her without saying anything. She kept repeating how it was cold. i was desperately waiting for her to ask me some question that I could answer. THen she began saying how the food was good. Again I didn't know what to answer and kept starting at her. Then she began deliberately rolling her eyes. I realized she was nervous, it was quite obvious, but I didn't know what to say. You have no idea how DESPERATE I was to say something just so that she would be more comfortable, I just didn't know WHAT. So I continued to be quiet. EVENTUALLY she asked me a question about Russia. Then shortly after I began to answer it, ooops she said she had to go to prepare for her mom's arrival. Well, she gave herself away. She FIRST said the mom decided to come early, and AFTER THAT checked her message where her mom said she will come early! So obviously she lied to me. The truth is that she simply didn't want to talk to me because of my inability to play ping pong. Anyway I asked her that may be we could meet some other time. She said that next weekend she will have her mom, next weekend she will have a midterm, then next weekend she will have a paper due, next weekend thanksgiving, next weekend Christmass "SORRY I am very busy, so *we will see* BUT IT WAS REALLY NICE MEETING WITH YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH" Well, all her thank you were obviously also a lie, given that when I E mailed her after that she never replied. I sent her an E mail apologising for it and explaining that it was disability. But she didn't even open the e mail that I sent her -- I can tell whether the E mail is opened or not based on the little face that would appear next to it once it is opened!! ! Anyway I kept contacting her and she kept ignoring me. Then a week after thanksgiving I contacted her again and explained in detail how it was due to disability. Her response was "guess you aren't there"! !! Well, what does she mean I am not there? I am not a human being?!?!?! She has NO IDEA that during that whole dinner I was VERY MUCH there. I kept thinking REALLY HARD just WHAT should I say to her. I kept going through dozens of versions of answering to her in my mind VERY DESPERATELY searching for what response I would feel the most comfortable with, but none of it sound normal. Well when I told her how I was VERY MUCH THERE, she just said "what do you want me to tell you". Well, I can't believe someone can get THAT offended for somethng another person just can't help with. When I explained to her again how it wasn't my fault, she said that actually she "hooked up" with a certain guy on Thanks Giving so she isn't checking her americansingles often any more. Well, first of all, it was obviously a lie since I saw her at least few hours each day on that chat. When I confronted her with that, she told me she just cleans her mail box. Wow... few hours a day cleaning her mail box. I will never believe it!! ! Secondly, she first said she "hooked up" with that guy, but then when I confronted her with how "she didn't have time" she told me that actually she knew that guy from high school and not from american singles and they were best friends and now decided to start a relationship. This contradicts how she said she "hooked up" with him, and also this contradicts how she told me before we met how she didn't have any close friends. Thirdly, if, as she says, they have started the relationship during Thanksgiving, it does't answer why she deliberately ignored my IM-s BEFORE thanksgiving. Foruthly, if, as she said "I wasn't there" then what was the point of "it was so nice to meet you, thank you so much"? If I am not there, why all this pointless politeness? And also if I am not there, why would my feelings be hurt so much? Or did she think I have no feelings and just a robot moving his fingers over a key board? When I started confronting her with it, she said her battery on a computer goes down so she can't talk. Then I came the next day trying to confront her with it, and she said "its all really nice, but I am not her, I am her friend, sorry for inconvenience". Then yet another day I came and she FINALLY told me the truth that "we didn't have anythign in common so I didn't pursue it". Then I told her what does she mean we didn't have anything in common if I didn't know how to keep conversation going. How can she possibly know if we have anything in common or not if there is a problem with an INTERFACE. And besides, when we were talking online she DID think we had plenty in common. Then when we met the interface was broken and the fact that the WIRE is broken made her change her mind so quickly. We were only in that restaurant 15 minutes but those 15 minutes were more than enough to undo the few days of chat on americansingles. Then when I explained it is due to asperger, she told me "you are using your asperger as an excuse for anything and everything and thats frustrating". Well, what does she mean ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. I weren't robbing any banks. I simply WEREN"T TALKING. I don't see why not knowing what to say is a crime any more than an olderly person's inability to walk fast is a crime. Its something I CAN"T HELP, and she says I use asperger as an excuse for "anything and everything". Its not anything and everything -- it is NUMBER ONE thing I can't help!! ! Then when I said it to her, she told me that she doesn't see one single bit in common and she doesn't want to talk to me any more. What does she mean she doesn't see one single bit in common, especially after she DID see plenty in common when we were chatting online? Obviously, inability to play ping pong happends to be far more important to her than what is INSIDE me.

The point is that the example of this other girl, among countless other examples, demonstrate that I have NO CLUE how to do a small talk. All I can say is "hi" when I am online and wait for someone else to ask me QUESTIONS I can respond to. When I am face to face its even worse as I don't even know how to say hi!! ! Thats why I would find ANY opportunity to say ANYTHING other than "hi". After all if I just IM people with "hi" 99% of them would ignore my IM.



Yah but its not intelligence, its CLUMSINESS. I have NO IDEA how to have a small talk. And when I play social "ping pong" I make some clumsy moves.




Yah, but what am I supposed to do?



Because they are not MIND READERS. How can they KNOW for a FACT what is going on in my mind. Obviously they do assume they are mind readers. After all, they are so certain about their assertions that there is no point in testing them.

Also when you use the word "point of view" it kind of implies its about a third party. Well, its about ME. So *I* KNOW for a FACT what is in *MY* mind given that I haven't lost consciousness or anything like that and I am not a robot either. So I don't have to have a "point of view" as to what is in my mind. I simply KNOW what is in my mind, because I am me, and they aren't me. So why are they to hold THEIR "point of view" above mine if they barely know me, while I INNATELY KNOW what is in my mind???

Your phrase "point of view" reminds me very much of what my mom does to me all the time. Like you know last spring when I transfered from the University of Minnesota to the University of Michigan, I had to go to the student orientation section. I bought myself a train ticket to go to Ann Arbor. But then my mom was worried that I would forget to find out a name of hotel. The reason she was worried is that I am disorganized and forget OTHER things. But she doesn't realize that knowing the name of the hotel is about SURVIVAL, so there is no way I would forget to find it out. To me its jsut something INNATE that my room can be a mess or whatever but I would NEVER sleep on the street no matter what. If I want to go from point A to point B then I WILL get there by whatever means possible. yes its true that may be I will find the name of hotel the last moment, but I will be sure to find it. I might forget to shave or take a shower but I WILL find the name of hotel.

However others, since they don't INNATELY feel what is inside me, when they see I am somewhat different they authomatically assume I am REALLY different and they don't want to test their assumptions. Just like that girl said "I guess you aren't there". Well, my mother's assumption that I will sleep on the street ammounts to the same thing that I AM NOT THERE. If I am even remotely there then surely I will make sure I will find my way to the hotel, however careless I am. But my mom assumes that since my room is a mess, then obviously I am NOT there, and since I am not there, obviously I will sleep on the street and wouldn't even notice it happening!! !

Well, this makes it rather obvious why people don't give me a second chance. If I am not there, that is, if I am a robot, obviously there is no way I can change what I am doing. When you are dealing with a robot, and robot would misfunction for three minutes, it is safe to assume that he always misfunctions, same goes for comuter, refrigurator, TV set, etc. And also when you are dealing with a robot, then you can't ask a robot what he is feeling. Robot has no awareness of his own working. If robot misfunctions, then you shouldn't ask robot why; you should ask his maker why. Similarly, if I misfunction then my mom knows the most about me (or that girl who assumed I asked her for pic or whatever) anyone knows about me except for myself since I am a robot.

Here is another example of this sort of thing. When I found a place for me to live in Ann Arbor, I only had a weekend to look because of my ticket back to Minneapolis which I bought in advance. So I found a room quite a distance from campus mainly because if was the only room that I saw which was reasonably big, and at the same time had a reasonable price. Anyway, after I moved there, my grandmother called me and asked me whether or not it was WORSE than in Minneapolis. The reason she asked me whether or not it was WORSE is probably because when I was like 5 years old or whatever I didn't like when my parents took me out of my home. Well I am no longer 5 years old. So obviously I was offended by her quesiton. Well, instead of openly discussing it with me, she chose to DENY the fact that she ever suspected it was worse. Then I told her, that if she didn't suspect it was worse, why didn't she ask whether it was better. And then she asked me whether it was better. And I told her oh yah it is much better. For one thing, there is so much nature around, such a beautiful forest, while in Minneapolis its mainly houses.

NOW THE TRUTH IS THAT I DIDN"T TAKE A CRAP WHETHER ITS FOREST OR HOUSES, my sole intention here was to convince my grandma that her original assumption was wrong by saying something opposite to what she said. However, as a consecuence of what i said, my mother started to believe that I deliberately chose a place far away from campus because of nature!! ! I told her I am not that stupid. Even if I like nature, I can walk there if I want to. I spend most of the time in school and not in nature, so obviously it would make the most sense to be close to school.

Well, she PRETENDED to agree with me and told me "she didn't think clearly" which is her usual answer when she is trying to toss me off. However, a couple of months later when she visitted me, she took a walk around a lake while I was studying at home. Anyway she met a Russian mother and a daughter, I believe a mother was a physicist actually, while the daughter was in a medical field somewhere if I remember correctly. Anyway, since I was studying obviously I didn't hear what they were talking about. However, after their walk she brought them to my house so that I could get to know them. After some conversatoin about other things they started talking about the house and suggested I find some place closer, and at the end they say "or may be you like the NATURE here so much?". Well, it was OBVIOUS my mom told them I was there because I liked the nature. Number one, is that its her usual tactic that whenever SHE tries to tell me something and I begin to rebel she would always say "I didn't think it through" and later on get someone ELSE to tell me whatever she wanted to tell me so that I wouldn't be rebelling as much. Secondly, it is a little bit more than coincident that they assumed the exact same thing my mom was assuming right after the conversation they had with my mom and especially being strangers they wouldn't start talking about places to live unless my mom brought it up herself. Once they left, I confronted my mom with the fact that I already told her two months ago that I was totally indifferent regarding nature and staff, so why did she tell them that I was there because of nature? She lied to me that she never said it to them. She claimed that all she told them was just the distance, and the nature part they just assumed on their own since there is so much nature so some people might like it. Well I knew she was lying but telling her that it was obvious how she lied didn't make her any more honest.

Well anyway a month later I came to California for a week to visit my mom before semester starts. Incidentally, I was looking for places to live closer to campus. We called my dad TO RUSSIA, where phone calls are quite expansive. Guess what, he asked me about the places I found. Well I said I am thinking about such and such place which is a couple of blocks from campus but quite messy and some other place which is a little further but a little cleaner , but both rooms are pretty small so I am not sure whether I really want to move there or to stay in a bigger room which I originally found and where I stayed in the summer; it is a distance away but there is commuter going every 10 minutes. Then he asked me whether or not there is any NATURE around the other places which are close to campus and have I looked where it is. Well, somehow I totally missed a connection between the other conversations about nature that I had. He covered it up so well that I perceived it as innocent curiocity. So I just innocently answered that well I didn't really had any time to look for the exact places where there is nature in downtown area, but Ann Arbor is pretty small town so presumably it won't be too far away; plus there isn't much of an activity going on so even though its a downtown, the air is just as clean as anywhere so it isn't a big deal. Then he tried to explain to me how I should move closer to campus since the size of the room is not a big deal because there is always a way to place your staff as long as I am neat, but the fact that something is far away is a little bit bigger problem especially in winter time since I don't drive. Well, it was a little surprise since I was scared he would try to perswade me to stay far away because of clean air, but now I see how he is even handed that he even changes his mind. What a relief. I guess I still didn't know what he was REALLY on to. I told him that because of the commuter going every 10 minutes I am not sure whether distance is such a big of a problem, and small rooms might and might not be a problem based on how I look at it, so thats why its a difficult decision. And THEN he FINALLY said his TRUE thoughts "well, could it be by any chance that you don't want to move closer because of NATURE". Well after that conversation I confronted my mom that she kept denying that she thought I was worrying about nature but based on what my dad said she obviously thought that way. At first she again decided to lie and told me that she just told my father that there is nature, and he came to that conclusion himslef just because "there are people who would like to be around nature". Then I asked her why did she tell him about nature, and FINALLY I got her to admit that after all she "forgot how I told her I didn't care about nature". Well, how can she forget if I was torturing her with it for like two hours? Then I asked her again what made her suspect it on the first place. And FINALLY she cited the words that I told my grandma on the phone, and she actually repeated what I told to my grandma word for word!! !

So you see, if she cares so little that she would forget what I was telling her for two hours straight, how would she actually CITE to me word for word what I told to my grandma??? And besides, why would my grandma even have to tell my mother on the first place what I was telling her on the phone??? You see IF she were to tell me few month earlier just WHAT made her assume I was so crazy about nature so much, I would of dealt with it right there by telling her the REAL reason I said it -- which was to fight my grandmother's original question whether or not the new place was WORSE than the old one! But instead she chose to DENY it, and then only FEW MONTH LATER would I ever learn that the sentence I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT was something I was paying for all this time!! !

And besides, IF my grandma were to just ask "how do you like the new place", I would of just answered "the new place is fine", end of discussion. She FORCED me to tell her how great was the nature since if I didn't, she would of assumed the new place was WORSE. So you see, they just assume that SOMETHING is bad, so NO MATTER WHAT I SAY, it would be bad. If I don't talk about nature, then it would be bad because the new place is worse than the old one and I must be homesick or uncomfortable. If I do talk about nature, then it is bad because it means I am so crazy about it, that I chose a place so far away ONLY because of nature. THE TRUTH IS THAT THE WAY MY GRANDMOTHER POSED HER FIRST QUESTION WAS BAD. When someone asks you whether something is WORSE than something else, there is NO way to answer it in a positive way.

THE SAME THING GOES FOR ANY OTHER SITUATION. YES I AGREE IT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA TO TELL THAT GIRL ABOUT ASPERGER OR WHATEVER. BUT YOU SEE, WHEN SHE TOLD ME HOW IT WAS *CREEPY* THAT I ASKED FOR PIC (WHICH I DID'T) THERE WAS *NO* POSITIVE WAY OF ANSWERING HER QUESTION. JUST LIKE THERE WAS *NO* NORMAL WAY OF ANSWERING MY GRANDMA QUESTION OF WHETHER THE NEW PLACE IS *WORSE*. THE TRUTH IS THAT I AM JUST FACED WITH THE *ASSUMPTIONS* PEOPLE MAKE BASED ON THE FACT THAT THEY ASSUME I AM A NUT. SO NO AMMOUNT OF SELF IMPROVEMENT WILL ALLOW ME TO TALK REASONABLY WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO TALK REASONABLY. YOU SEE, TALKING REASONABLY IS TWO WAY PROCESS. IF ONE END OF THE LINE ASSUMES I AM ret*d, THEN TRYING TO BE REASONABLE WILL ONLY LEAD TO MORE FRUSTRATION. Likewise, being "reasonable" with that girl, wouldn't make her want to talk to me, either. So why be reasonable then, if I have nothing to lose anyway?





No, I think NT-s who ASSUME staff about me are the ones who don't have sense of proportion. Well may be because aspies lack a sense of proportion and can't tell between 1 and 2, NT-s assume they can't tell between 1 and 2000. Yes, NT-s do have a sense of proportion WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH OTHER NT-S. But when it comes to dealing to people who are disabled, then all their sense of proportion magically goes away. After all, proportion is a very human thing. Robots don't have proportion, robots are all or nothing. If someone is disabled, its his brain chemistry, right? So he must be a robot since after all no one else's brain has any chemistry, everyone else are just "human". And if they are robots then OF COURSE there is no proportion.

Look at facts. If I want to tell her how tall I am, it means that I am a stalker. If I acknowledge the fact that the nature is rather beautiful, it means I am so crazy about nature that it would be my number one criteria of choosing the place to live. If I am disorganize, it means that I would forget to find out the name of the hotel and would sleep on the street.

And, going back to the way people SHUN you, it takes a HUGE amount of LACK of sense of proportion to say that something VERY LITTLE would take WHOLE LIFE to pay for. And I mean THE WHOLE LIFE. If I screw up a little bit by mentioning my height or whatever, ooops, I strike out, so I am not playing any more. So speaking of that girl, it took me may be 2 or 3 sentennces to scare her off, and as a consequence, she wouldn't speak to me MY WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE.

I think the whole thing about overemphasizing social nuances is really about devaluating HUMAN LIFE. Like at the other autism forum someone told me that I have to realize that when NT-s choose not to talk to someone, they don't spend as much time thinking about it as aspies seem to. For NT-s its the matter of SECONDS to decide whom they want to talk to and whom not. Well, isn't it a lack of proportion? So, they will put the LIFE of the other person at stake based on FEW SECONDS!! !

My ex-girlfriend, Sarah, also seem to devaluate life. As you have seen in another thread, it was no problem for Sarah to put a bunch of birds with their children into a water bag just to solve inconvenience. Well, thats her attitude for everything, not just birds. Like one day when we were still in a committed relationship, we just had a small talk or whatever and she just mentioned how she is thinking of having two kids and adopting the other two. At that time she didn't even say why she all of a sudden thought of adopting kids. But she just said it and moved on to other things. No explanation needed, after all, deciding whether to adopt kids or not is like deciding which groceries you want to buy or whatever --- DON"T YOU SEE LACK OF PROPORTION RIGHT HERE WHEN DECISION TO ADOPT KIDS IS EQUATED WITH DECISION WHCH GROCERIES YOU WANT TO BUY. Anyway, I found it a little weird but somehow I didn't even ask any quesitons because I didn't realize that there was something behind it. I just innocently assumed oh well thats her quirk so I didn't even ask anything!! ! Then TWO MONTHS LATER somehow she was again talking about it and THIS time she told me it was based on her assumption that my Asperger runs in my family. Now, guess what. SHE NEVER EVEN MET A SINGLE PERSON FROM MY FAMILY OTHER THAN MYSELF!! ! She simply ASSUMED they are aspies since I was. Well, when I confronted with her that not all aspies have it run in a family, she just said "well I just think that you do", no explanation needed, no nothing. When I told her how I have lived THE WHOLE LIFE with my family and I KNOW them, and in particular I KNOW whether they are autistic or not, she said she needed to see it herself by "looking at their mannerisms or whatever". Well what does she mean look at their MANERISMS. If they have ANY mannerisms it would of been pretty obvious, wouldn't it, especially for someone who LIVED THE WHOLE LIFE with them. But for PEOPLE WHO RAISED ME were just some guinny pigs she just can apply "statistics" to. She didn't even realized that it hurt my feelings as when I tried to question her she just yelled "STOP!! !! !! !" So you see how shallow she is. She thinks that the family who RAISED you is just as easy to figure as some bunch of guinny pigs for someone else who never even saw them once. No wonder she also thought that decision about kids is like going shopping or something. And now I am the one who is accused of the lack of proportion!



1)If she understood, then why did she said "you ASKED for a picture WAY too fast"

2)If she understood her original assertion was wrong, then why did she still want to exit the situation? After all, the decision of exitting situation was based on WRONG assumption that I asked for picture. But if she understood that I didn't, then why did she still wanted to exit the situation just the same?

3)Exitting the situation without being mean is FAR WORSE than confronting me. Because I don't even KNOW the charges which I would otherwise be able to answer to!



I WISH it was more than ping pong. What I am saying is that the ping pong part is what keeps getting me into trouble.



What do you mean the situation was un-important. Surely, in girl's eyes it was EXTREMELY important, given the way she wanted to stop talking to me at any cost. If it was "un-important", then why didn't she give me another chance to make up for it? Probably because it was so important in her eyes that nothing can make up for it!



If it was possible to learn from those mistakes, the girl would of given me a chance to do so. The reason she didn't is that she assumed that my mistakes were irredeemable. And then it isn't just that girl. Everyone assumes the very same thing given that no single person wants to talk to me just to test their assumptions.

So you would rather be with someone who doesn't care about you?

And also why "TOTALLY turned off?" Is needing you a PERSONAL offense? No, its something a person can't help with.

Last edited by Roman on 20 Mar 2005, 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

1)I don't see why woud it put anyone off that I typed something into the wrong screen. Of course I wouldn't do it deliberately so obviously it is an accident. This means she is to smile and move on as if it didn't happen.

2)Once I did type it into the wrong box, why are you saying I should have avoided saying that it was the case? If I were to avoid telling her that I typed it into the wrong box, then what else should I have told her?



I said I was MESSIANIC. This means I am somewhat Jewish and somewhat Christian. Of course, some people claim that the whole Messianic movement is a lie, but thats a different issue.



Suppose you are applying to college, and they say that they need your GPA to be at least 3.0, while your actual GPA is 2.9 In this case, it is legitimate question to ask whether or not it is ok for you to apply with 2.9 when they say they need 3.0. You don't assume they are already interested in admitting you. As a matter of fact, you have a good reason to assume just the opposite.

Now, I understand that situation with a girl was a little different. But still you have to admit that there was AT LEAST two ways of reading me. So why assume the most ridiculous one? Of course I wouldn't assume she is interested the first few minutes we talk UNLESS *SHE* ASSUMES how every guy wants to stalk as many women as they can.



If it was obvious what I meant, then why did she said "it was kinda creepy when you ASKED for the photo"? In particular, how do you interprete HER using the word "asked"?



When I typed those paragraphs there were long pauses between every line. I would type a couple of lines, wait for few minutes for her to respond, she wouldn't, and I would type few more lines.




1)I agree that NORMALLY I think it but don't say. But given that I ALREADY sounded weird that I described my appearance, I had to explain why I describe my appearance. If I don't explain it, then how would she know that I didn't do it in order to ask for photo (as she accused me of doing)?

2)Given that I am not actually offending anyone by long explanation, the only thing that is wrong about it is that it makes me look "strange". But why is it assumed that beind "strange" is a bad thing? Being different is neither better nor worse. If you are objective it is NEUTRAL to be different, as you can be different in either dirrection. So the very reason you should avoid being different is that assumption that different is worse. And that is THE reason why aspies are ostracised. THATS why its worse to be an aspi than to be a jerk. Even when jerks can be REALLY bad, its ok because they are "bad" in a normal way. On the other hand, if an aspi is neutral its bad because he is neutral in "strange" way.



So you mean it is better if I offended her on purpose, than if I simply lack social language?

If thats what you mean, no wonder jerks get all the girls they want, while I am the one who is constantly ignored.



If I think but don't say, how would she know what I think?

And besides, is it such a bad think? If I want to start it over, then it means I feel TRULLY sorry, which means I am not one of those jerks who do this type of staff on purpose.

I said it when all the previous staff didn't work. I waited for few minutes, no response. So I tried harder to get her attention.



But you have Asperger don't you? Thats what I always wonder about. When Brina Siegen evaluated me, she said I am on the mildest 0.5% of aspies. Yet, the experience shows that other aspies have FAR better social skills than I do -- at least I am the only aspi who doesn't even have any acquietences and doesn't even know how to say hello to people. And you aren't the only aspi who would delete me. I have been banned from at least three different aspi message boards for lack of social skills.



No, I had to appologise. I realized how it was wrong of me to all of a sudden leave when she wanted to talk to me. So why not appologise? In fact, the next conversation shows that even that appology wasn't sufficient as she still thought it was wrong of me to go to Bible studies.



Thats the #1 thing that angers me about EVERYONE, not just her. I just don't agree with the whole thing about stopping talking to people. I mean, if they are bad, you have nothing to lose as you will always have a chance to stop talking. However, if they are really good except for FEW mistakes that they made, you would never find out if you don't talk to them.

Those few words "suppose I am a saint ..." is THE reason why I spend all this time agonizing over it. You see, the fact that people stop talking implies that they KNOW there is NOTHING good about me, so there isn't even a point to find out a little bit more by continuing talking!! ! THATS what makes it so hard to forget it. I mean, if there is nothing good about me, then what am I to do when I can't just leave my body the way she left me?



Agreed, but I haven't had much to lose anyway. You see, if I didn't go this way, then she wouldn't be talking to me because of the picture/bible studies issue. If I did go this way, then she doesn't talk (rightfully) becaues I was stalking her. So she basically put me into no win situation BEFORE I ever began the stalking behavior.



Yes



This only tells that people seem to lack compassion for others.



Given the fact that she wasn't the only one who treated me this way, perhaps you are right. However, this putts me off even more as it implies how i am trully worthless since even pretty tolerant people can't tolerate things I can't help with.



She didn't implied she still wanted to talk to me, as she clearly said she didn't. Perhaps it didn't cross her mind to block me. Or perhaps a teenage rebelure made her want to yell at me some more.

Roman,
You have to settle down.

Obviously you have no idea how to do small talk. You do "huge talk" instead. You talk more than anyone I've ever seen.

It just seems to me like possibly one of the reasons you keep screwing up this person-to-person communication thing is that you're focusing on every detail to such an excruciating degree that the overall situation becomes abstract and ceases to make any sense. You're like a Pit Bull that gets his teeth in something and then just won't let go--no matter what. Seriously: Try to step back a little bit and objectify things.

Look, dealing with other people is hard for all of us. That's the heart of AS, right? It might not be natural or automatic for us, but it's not impossible. It's a skill that you can try to learn.

Personally, when I deal with people--which I do all day at work, everyday--I do to a certain extent tell people what they want to hear, even if deep down I couldn't care less. I have learned to recognize what is expected of me and I do my best to meet those expectations. I certainly don't always succeed, but I get by. And I've been married to a NT man for 14 years.

So I'm saying don't give up hope. But understand you have some work to do. Clearly, if you can become a graduate student in Physics, you're capable of a lot. The people on this site seem pretty nice and I'm sure will be willing to help you along.

Ok Roman

Firstly, your posts are so long that I find it hard to stay focused. It took me a good hour to read through all this, with a good sized break in between. So maybe you could cut down on repeating yourself. That would be one improvement to socializing.
Second, you have asked for tips and advice yet everything that has been suggested to you has been disputed by you. Why is this when you say you know what you are doing is not working, yet you don't want to try the changes that are suggested.
Thirdly, you repeat over and over how no-one ever talks to you and girls constantly are driven away from you, yet you also speak of having a girlfriend. Even if the relationship did not work out, you have made it further in the relationship senario than many on this board that are older than you by making that far. Yet you try and make it sound worse than it is just so that people will feel sorry for you or something.

Everyone has bad s**t happen to them in their lives. I have heaps of things I could be telling everybody I know. It's my COMPASSION for them that I don't. What is compassionate about making people feel sad for you. You want others to give you compassion, then give them a break.
Fourth, attraction is not based on how much you feel you can help someone. Compassion is not based on how much you can help someone either. What you need to learn is that no-one knows you like you know yourself. Therefore the only person who can give you true help is guess who, YOU. I have had people try to help me but really its mostly from people that see something in me that needs fixing. Is that what you want. To be constanly feeling like you need to fix something about yourself? Don't be fooled, it's a s**t place to be.
You don't need fixing at all. You do however need to learn that you are the MASTER of your mind. YOU direct it. It only is the Master of you if you allow it to be. Does your mind belong to you, or do you belong to your mind?
You do not need to tell someone everything about you all at once. You will not succeed ever in getting someone into your mind the same way you understand it so stop trying so hard. People that have been together for 50 years will tell you that they are still learning about each other. They don't do this by forcing it on each other. They learn about each other by simply being.
You have no idea what ATTRACTION is based on. But that's ok because most people don't. Not even those who feel it. Attraction is egnighted with mystery and fun.


Here is something by a guy named David D'Angelo he writes for NT's, so don't think you are alone when it comes to dealing with girls.

There's something that women call "Sexual Tension".
It's also known as "Chemistry" or "Attraction" as
well. But only WOMEN know it this way.

When you tease a woman, make her laugh, play hard
to get with her, act unpredictably, etc. in the right
way, you will create this tension. This is what usually
leads to a woman saying something like "You're cute"
or "I like you".

It's the TENSION that makes her FEEL it and SAY it.
THE TENSION!
In these very special moments, you need to turn the
tension UP. Dial it up. AMPLIFY it.

Don't diffuse it all by saying "You're cute yourself"
or "I like you, too". Or by smiling like a jackass
wussy dork who has just seen his first rainbow.

This kind of thing RELEASES the tension, and it usually
takes that wonderful electric attraction feeling that
the woman is feeling and INSTANTLY kills it.

Does this make logical sense?

Hell no.

But it's what happens.

OK, so let's talk about the RIGHT way to handle this
type of situation.

Remember when I said that it's the TENSION that makes
a woman feel the feelings and make the comments?

And that you need to AMPLIFY it when you're getting
a positive response?

Nice.

Once upon a time, there was a scene in a movie that
illustrated this concept PERFECTLY.

In fact, it might be the all-time greatest example
of this principle that has ever been recorded on film.

Remember the end of "The Empire Strikes Back" when
they were about to put Han Solo into the deep freeze?

Remember when Leia said "I love you"...?

Remember what Han said?

Right, he said... "I know".

Perfect.

All of the sexual tension that built up in Star Wars
and Empire culminated in Leia confessing her love.

And Han says "I know".

Awesome!

Imagine being Leia. What could be going through her
mind at this point?

An answer like this isn't easy to understand. It has
all kinds of implications.

It's confusing.

It says "I know you love me, because it's been obvious
for a long time...". But it doesn't let HER know how
he feels exactly. It requires consideration. It dials
up the tension. It's amazing.

If you're out with a woman, and you tease her because
she's wearing four inch heels by saying "What's the
deal, are you four feet tall without those one?",
and she opens her mouth with the classic "Oh no you
didn't" look (smiling of course, with that surprised
smile)... and you dial it up to the next level with
"Oh, I'm sorry...Four foot three?"... and she hits
you on the arm...

...and then she stops, puts her hand on your arm,
and says "You know, you're funny"...

...what do you do?

YOU SAY "YEA, I KNOW" – in a serious tone.

Or "Don't try to use compliments to make me like you.
It won't work. Go buy me a drink or something... I
prefer gifts and money."

Or look down at her hand on your arm, lean back slightly,
turn your head, and put your eyebrows together as if
to say "Just WHAT do you think you're doing touching
me?!".

TURN IT UP, my friend!

You TURN UP the tension.

AMPLIFY it.

Keep it going.

If you keep amplifying the tension and attraction
at each of these wonderful moments, good things will
happen.
____________________________________________________

So there you go. I've made a long post for you. And I hope I haven't offended you by being blunt with you. You will find that people will be happy to help you with your questions if you don't argue with them. Please refrain from repeating anything you have already stated if you reply to this post because I have already spent a great amount of time reading it and do not wish to be reading it again as I already understand what you have been saying.
And let me add this too. You may be lucky to find a girl that wants to 'fix' you and pity you, but she will get tired of you not bettering yourself and she will get tired of you quickly. Life is an exchange of energy and if you constantly take and demand it from others, they will feel it draining them (but not usually know what is making them feel drained other than their interaction with you). And they will swiflty bring that interaction to an end. No BUTS about it.

ElfMan

I found her online, and she was the only person who ever talked to me for more than 5 minutes. She kept me from her friends because she was ashamed of how I can't have conversation going. She was bringing me home whenever she had to see someone.



Granted. But in order to decide whether or not you are attracted to someone you should get to know them first. So you can at least try to get to know them instead of cutting them off in five minutes to see WHETHER OR NOT you will be attracted to them. What you have seen in the conversation with that girl it was more than lack of attraction. So your point of view is that people will HATE you for the fact that you are desperate since you blamed my statements to that girl that I was desperate.



1)I am not sure whether you understood me as if I wanted my girlfriend to give me help in improving social skills. The kind of "help" I want from my girl friend is that I would have HER and this way I wouldn't have to worry so much about not having other friends. The other kind of help I want from her is that when I make a mistake she still sticks around long enough for me to fix it. I am not saying I want her to teach me or anything. Just refrain from leaving so that I would be able to fix it. You have to realize that there is no way I can possibly start socializing if there is no one I can socialize WITH. I am not asking her to understand me perfectly as long as she acknowledges the fact that she doesn't understand me perfectly by refraining from being so judgemental.

b)Otherwise I 100% agree with what you said!! ! And the implication of this, is that people shouldn't be so quick on judging me. Yes ppl have their opinions. But if they actually cut me off, it implies that they KNOW me very well after all there is no need to test their assumptions.




And thats part of the problem. People only see the bad side of someone who is different, and not a good side.



I am already feeling this way. Have been for the last 3 years.

The first time I felt this way was when dirrector of Jewish club back in Minnesota didn't let me to go to the trip to Israel because of my lack of social skills -- when I told her it was Asperger it only hurt me rather than helped me since the word Asperger was what led her to feel like I can't help it so I should be shut down and shoulnd't be given chances. So you see its like her whole entire purpose of not letting me go to Israel was to help others to keep me away, in a sense to make sure I continue not to have friends. After all, others don't like me, so why not isolate me to help them feel better. It was fine with her that I was comming to the club, since after all no one talked to me anyway. However, going to the field trip might somehow force people to talk to me becaues of shared activities, so thats when she had to help the others in a club to keep me away.

Then I went to dating sites to prove her wrong by finding at least one friend (I didn't even dream of anything more than friend -- my ex made a first move in a relationship). And it took me 2 years to find her. Everyone else was ignoring me right after an exchange of first few sentences.



I agree 100% that I am a master of my mind. However, others don't seem to get this point. And thats what angers me. They think I have no clue about my own mind and thats why they trust THEIR ASSUMPTIONS above what I KNOW about my mind. And also they don't feel I am capable of dirrecting my mind. Thats why they assume that the 5 minutes they know me represent the way I am my whole life. If I am the master of my mind, then I can tell them "okay this 5 minutes I screwed up, but now I will dirrect my mind better", but they don't think of it this way. This whole "first impression" rule completely denies the fact that people are masters of their mind, and thats what angers me.



But, speaking of people who shut me down, they didn't spend 50 years with me. They shut me down based on the VERY SHORT period of time they did know me. So this implies that somehow they know me without needing to spend 50 years.

IF people weren't shutting me down, I would NEVER be pushed to explain myself the way I do. I would just give it a time and let them get to know me. But this preferred option can't possibly happen if they shut me down. And they should realize that given that they don't know EVERYTHING about me, may be they should learn a liiiitle bit more before arriving at a final conclusion.

Roman, the reason I am concerned for you is that you sound very much how I can be when I am not being careful. I can totally understand where you are coming from with having the right to explain yourself. But for some reason that I have no idea about, IT DOESN'T WORK. That's the bottom line Roman. The fact that explaining yourself does not work. Logically, I can see it should. That's why I also have a tendancy to do it. And the more confused I am about something, the more I will need to explain things.
I had a relationship that was going sort of ok UNTIL I started to constantly explain myself. She would even tell me "DONT explain yourself". Social interaction does not seem to be based on LOGIC though hey? So we need to stop trying to be so analitical and logical about something that does not work in that respect. That's very hard to do when it is the natural way for our minds to operate.
See, I am not too bad at the intial contact with people. I do not usually initiate that though. It's when people have settled into a friendship with me that I get these explain myself tendencies. Once I start with explaining myself, the friendship breaks down.
Someone once told me that if you say sorry and then explain yourself too much, they will feel like you did not mean the sorry. I have to watch for this, because when I say sorry I do mean it, and I do try to explain myself.
So like I said, I don't know why it happens, but it does. You need to find a way to be self assured about what you do, and not care so much what others may pressume. Work on how you feel about you.
What I try to remember is that my thoughts are in a constant state of change. UNLESS I lock onto a thought, analizing it, disecting it, and feeding it heaps of energy by being mono-focused on it.
Let the bad thoughts keep on travelling right on through. Tell them there is no stopping at this station, move along. It's not easy and it takes practice. If you constantly analize things the way you are Roman, it will eat you up and make you sick.

Breathe to your belly Roman

ElfMan