Trying to understand the way NTs see things

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I get told by a lot of people that I should just get over my issues which are autistic symptoms. One sister is critical about my fear of change and my need for routine, especially eating meals at certain times. Once, I did freak out a bit about the family Christmas plans changing and she tried to make it sound like I was being selfish. That was a very stressful time for me as I had to sign these contracts ASAP otherwise the family couldn't sell the house, and I was going through the monthly bout of depression.

Then my mum would say that she knows I have problems but like her I should just deal with them.

An old friend told me I was using my autism/ADHD/ODD as a cop out, so we're not friends anymore.

My psychiatrist just makes me sound more mild than I am. I'm told he is trying to reassure me I'm allright. But in a letter to a community centre he described me as 'having social anxiety best described as Asperger's' - and that just does my head in. It's inaccurate.

I usually become hostile to all types of remarks but I have this friend who gives similar remarks but in that sweet sensitive down the earth way I can't bring myself to be angry at him. He has also inadvertently taught me new social skills. He first taught me that people have more concern for the individual than the disorder. NTs will not mention the disorder because they think it's what we want. I used to think that they weren't acknowledging the fact I had autism but I think they just didn't mention it because they thought it was what I wanted and it could may have made them feel uncomfortable to talk about it.

So the next thing he says is he knows how much I have to go through just to go out to see live bands etc but that I shouldn't let things bother me. I was really confused by this and at first felt like responding with hostility but then I thought NTs must mean something differently than just saying 'get over it.' This guy hasn't got a cruel bone in his body so I won't believe for one moment that he's saying that kind of thing to me.

I now interpret it to mean that he just wants me to have fun like all the rest. Yes, he doesn't feel what I have to go through but he shows a lot of concern, and that's one thing that people who have criticised me like I mentioned above have never done.

What I get from most of this is that NTs are better at suppressing their true emotions but we feel them so intensively that they become harder to control.

The reason why I put this here is because I still feel like I'm missing something. I don't know why people react like they do. On one point I can understand because I have a sister with OCD and I do think she overreacts. I know that's not her fault. I always try to keep an open mind about her disorders (Bipolar is the other one).

What's also interesting is the way NTs look at a person's behaviour and don't see that the disorder is responsible. I don't know how I'd cope with my sister without that knowledge.

I wonder what else this guy will teach me. Be easy on him. He is kind of my favourite person in the world and he has no idea how helpful his comments have become.

Hmmm...I ride the fence. I am not NT enough to be NT, but I am not AS enough to be AS. I think I petty much have the right "mix" of symptoms, just not in the severity needed for a diagnosis. Riding the fence, I sometimes feel like I am blessed by being able to catch a glimpse of both sides.

I think when NTs say you should just get over it, some of them do mean it in a mean way. They think you are being self-indulgent and just need to get over "it" (it usually being yourself). Others do not mean it in a mean way at all. I think they call upon their own experience that I think is more like "letting go" than "getting over." I think that for some NTs when they struggle with something, there comes a moment in which they just...well...release it. They let it go and it no longer holds the same power over them. I have done this before and I wish there was a way to explain how to do it, but I don't know how to explain it. So I kinda get what your friend is saying. On the other hand, there are certain other things that I simply cannot "get over" or "let go." No matter how much I think I should. Something inside if me is incapable, even though I know it is bad for me. These kinds of things seem to be more closely tied to what is probably my wiring.

I think for many NTs, their success at things is closely tied to the amount of effort they put into it. So they assume that the harder you try, the more successful you will be. I think that many NTs cannot see that the struggles of many with AS are not related to motivation, or lack thereof. They do not realize that it is kind of the same as no matter how hard they try, they are never going to be a record-breaking sprinter. Their body is not made to do it, and no amount of practicing or trying will change that. They could devote every minute of every day to becoming a world-class sprinter and they will never accomplish it. Will they be able to run faster? Yes. But they are constrained by their biology, not their will. People with AS are often constrained by their neurology, not their will.

Then another issue is one that I struggle with myself. I can be very organized. Perhaps even moreso than many people I know. But the truth is, the effort it takes me to do it is more than I can put out on a continual basis. My executive dysfunction takes over eventually. So even though I know how to be organized and can manage it for brief spurts, I can't sustain it. Not because I don't want to and not because I don't see the value in it, but because my neurology does not allow for it. I think that sometimes NTs see you handle something appropriately once or twice, and they make the errant assumption that you can do it and choose not to. Were it not for my own struggles with executive functioning, my son would drive me insane. He is so bright and capable, but a good majority of the time, he does not live up to his potential. But I understand it is because doing so is too laborious over the long haul. He has to try too hard to match up to his raw brain power. One day he will probably be like me and realize that he is way smarter than where he is in life. He will probably beat himself up mercilessly for it and believe that everyone was right. That he was unmotivated and lazy. I hope to balance that out for him (but I am now straying from the point of your post).

having autism or aspergers is extremely difficult for the individual, but no matter how much we try to follow their rules and not let sensory issues and change of plans and other issues overwhelm us...no matter how much we try to fit in, we still seem to annoy and irritate people around us. i've had a lot of truly sweet and caring people just lose patience with me when i was trying soooooo hard to not bother anyone. i find all forms of autism are extremely difficult for people to understand, and given we can act varying degrees of normal when not overwhelmed, not anxious, and not extremely agitated nor overstimulated, they think we have control!! well, if i had control, i wouldn't have these issues now would i?

I think when my sister says it she is being mean because she thinks I'm being self indulgent. My other sister, the one with Bipolar, never accuses me of such things. Interesting thing is she denies her diagnosis but can still look at me like an individual struggling. Then again she probably relates in some way. We still get into a lot of disagreements but it's nothing compared to someone who doesn't understand what you're going through tell you to just get over it.

I wish I could let go especially because I only get a rare chance to go to these shows. When dealing with other issues I just sort of detach from them. I don't think that is the same as letting go. I think it's a very extreme type of coping mechanism. I've had to turn off my emotions to people because I was under such stress that I just stopped caring.

There probably are some things NTs can't let go which seem trivial to me.


Problem is I have ADHD too and there are severe debilitating motivation problems. I've actually gone days without being able to make a single meal other than a sandwich. I'm not sure what it's like to have to start something with AS and follow it through. I can't even motivate myself to start an art project even though I was once so excited to start.



I'm very organised too and it is such a struggle. I've actually watched myself slip in organisation skills because I've been sick and I've been hardly doing the cleaning routine.

I feel like I'm split in the middle with autism and ADHD and that's a real struggle, because now NTs have to be introduced to co-morbid disorders. And I have the sub types of autism: pathological demand avoidance (i.e don't control me or I'm going to completely shut down) and oppositional defiance disorder (I say 'no' to everything). However, the latter is only mild. It still gets me into a lot of trouble though.


Thanks. I think it's going to take some time for this 'letting go' thing to sink in. But I know my friend really does care about me.

it's not that we ignore the disorder or don't want to talk about it. l mean, l don't talk about ADHD in real life but aside from just being a weird f-cking person, its really my only "impairment". you've known some people wtih ADHD who could hide it, assuming they weren't exaggerating for attention or really severe cases.

ln my case as an NT, l would want the person to be able to "exist" outside of the disorder, but it depends on the disorder. Different motivations for a person defining themselves by a diagnosis. l happen to think many people do want attention or a pardon from life with certain disorders(ADHD being one for many.

l have it, like l said please don't yell at me lol). Also some people who have it will use it to be "quirky" but still think their charms will make up for the total lack of any responsibility or structure, it's just not the case. And after 25 or so....yeah.


So maybe some just view AS that way too, l couldn't be sure. l guess if an NT knew "someone" who had it and functioned well , they might not think anyone with it will be impaired. l've even seen this argument used for schizophrenia, one girl l was agreeing with in the case of some disorder want too far and said that since she worked with some schizophrenics who took meds and functioned well in society, most of them ought to be able to.

l was really o_O

So l think the resistance to acknowledge your condition by some people is the backlash of "disability culture'. And again, l have been annoyed by types who will use a diagnosis to define themselves and especially to avoid responsibility, usually those diagnoses are less severe than AS can be.

And there is a lot of can be with AS, some a lot of NTs just don't get that sometimes it is debilitating and in those cases it isn't really this genius, magic, sparkly special affliction they wish they had.

l think like your friend, l'd acknowledge your issues but what makes me feel like a person isn't going to be able to work on their weak areas at all is when they have a pretty strong aversion to the idea of improving itself. You sound like you make some effort and are listening to him, if you didn't, he would NOT be your favorite person lol.

the best way and possibly only way to ever see an NT mindset is go on Zyprexa, or some other mood drug.

I was on it for a month two years ago and that was the first time I realised I had been living in a black hole my whole life. The darkness lifted that I didn't know existed, and I became confident everywhere and like there was anticipation for the future and everything I ever wanted to do was about to come to fruition. It was an awesome feeling.


Too bad I couldnt tolerate the side effects.
I'm thinking of going back on it or a similar one.

Are you sure that is due to a motivational issue? I ask because I have ADD and I would not call that a problem with motivation. I would call that a problem with initiation. Motivation is a "will" problem. Initiation is not. When I have a motivation problem, I know I need to do something, but I don't really want to, so I put it off. When I have an initiation problem, I know I need or want to do something, but needing or wanting to do something does not help me get started. It isn't that I don't want to do it, it's that I can't seem to get started.

I would like to add to this as well. One can put in as much effort as he wants but if he is going by erroneous premises his efforts will not produce sound results. NTs mainly in America seems to have this belief that ones confidence and attitude will lead to positive results. NTs focus more on my confidence and attitude and they treat them as a cause instead of an effect. It makes no logical sense to me and I can't make heads or tails of it.

It is like what they are saying is the birth of a child caused the conception of this child. I keep telling them that I can't do x if I am missing data or the data I do have may be erroneous. For whatever reason, they continue to perservate on my attitude and confidence. I told you about my changing lanes. I couldn't switch lanes without my instructor's instruction to it. My attitude changed and confidence soared and both were an effect. How would attitude and confidence give me the knowledge of what I was supposed to do.

Why can't they show me where my premises are wrong that leads up to my negative attitude or lack of confidence? Why focus on the conclusion and treat it as a premise when it is not?

I agree fully and think the same way.

I'm middle of the road since I'm ND and most of my dealings with NT people are all about effort and intent. I too share this trait with them. They do not like excuses or resistance to change or lack of continual effort to make a difference. They don't like it when people stop trying because it's uncaring and disrespectful. I strongly agree with this notion and do understand that they have this stance out of respect and fairness for everyone (minus your NTs with their own flavors of social problems, lets exclude them from the mix).

The "disability culture" thing is an issue too, especially when there are so many people assuming that a label will be placed and no effort will be made by either party to reach across the isle. This has been hard for me to do with ADHD, but over many years I've been able to show to most people that I will do everything I can to balance the burdens of work or projects especially as a performance artist. I notice that this has made a huge impact and most people see me as rather unique individual who must do things differently and it is accepted quite well.

I think NTs want to feel the equality they're spreading directed back to them from those who think differently and it makes all the difference in the world.

Agreed too. It takes the right kind of workplace, but I've found that the thing that most helps NTs to understand when I genuinely have an issue is that I immediately take responsibility when something goes wrong on my end, and I am always immediately brainstorming potential solutions. NTs appreciate seeing the neurodiverse people put in the effort to pull their weight, and if you show them that you are doing so, they're generally far more willing to understand your cognitive frame and work with it, rather than against it.

Yeah, it's generally a certain personality type that will do this no matter what the disorder is so l am definitely not blaming the disability itself.

Among NTs with any kind of disorder, the person who defines themselves by it usually has an excuse for everything, even if it's not the disorder. And you can't tell them that, they don't care and all they hear is that you are not validating or even discriminating against them >_>

So it really is about a person having some desire to step outside of this for me. l'm going to feel bad for someone that l can see wants to and can't really improve. l'm not going to feel bad for someone who could and doesn't want to and l will most likely be annoyed,

lt's very hard for us to view others on the same level as we are when we're aware that every single human being has a problem (that you most likely don't know about) and could easily use as an excuse, but doesn't.

Not doing so is a way to assert yourself as an "equal player' in the game versus someone who needs to have responsibility assumed for them. That is not something most people want to be around, the people who are really eager to take care of those who won't take care of themselves are usually a very special kind of damaged >_>

But like l said, even when abilities are limited, the intent makes all the difference.

Yes, this is where having things like AS makes life completely s**t. No matter how normal you do things, you still somehow get rejected, humiliated or left out. You could say something as simple as smiling at a co-worker in the morning and saying, ''hello, how are you this morning?'' and still come across as odd. When things are like that, it is mighty hard to pinpoint where you are somehow going ''wrong'', and it makes it harder to work on.

Guh! I HATE AS!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !!

Thanks for the lesson in semantics. In ADHD circles it's mostly seen as a motivational problem and I'm not one to change the term book. It's a dopamine problem - that better?

To outsiders and even to myself it can be seen as a lack of motivation. It probably can be seen as an initiation problem but not always. I'm hyperactive and impulsive so some tasks that are seen as too hard to start are usually thought of as 'meh, no time.'

I think some people here have had qualms with other people with autism/ any other disorder and I hope they're not tarring me with that same brush (that sounds weird to say). If anything I have more responsibility because of my disability. I can have days when I slip but I usually need a lot of structure to get started with the day. And I do want to learn more social skills and wonder what my rockstar friend will inadvertently teach me next.

I think I have learned a lot in here while trying to suppress my oppositional nature. I do think NTs can manage their stress better and they do like to relate to people. I think even I want to relate to people, except when I go O.D.D. That is quite difficult to live with but I have more understanding why I am always trying to be the opposite.

I don't think it has anything to do with a disdain for disability culture because I doubt these people know anything about it.

For what it's worth I love neuroscience and psychology and have no problems at all talking about autism, ADHD, bipolar, etc but people think you want them to feel sorry for you, when I just find it so fascinating. I think it makes people feel uncomfortable to be told about things they just think of as a disability and something they don't have to deal with. Then they have to face a person who talks about this stuff like they are reading from a fact book.

I have pretty severe HFA and ADHD and I have to get control over it because when I don't well, things just get worse for me. I can sometimes let my ADHD be then it's gets to a point where I've lost complete control over it, and there's a lot of wreckage. My most severe symptoms in autism are sensory sensitivity, need for structure, routine, and fear of change.

The fact that I sometimes identify with it is because I am so different and it can make you feel lonely and people want you to be more like them, which can be very hard and frustrating. Not to mention an insult to who you are. Why should I change to be like them? I happen to like who I am. I need my autism sanctuary where I can be me. I need labels to strengthen me. I don't see it as completely negative, ADHD too. And I will enjoy my O.D.D until I feel like I took it too far. I see both the positives and negatives of the disorders.

There's no way I want to stay like this. I'm doing everything to overcome anxiety. I plan for change. I wear sensory supports. I medicate. I don't medicate. I pack extra food. I avoid alcohol. I have one or two drinks. I'm trying to build up on my career as a band photographer again while I get photosensitive seizures from strobe lights.

I think a problem NTs have is when they relate to my symptoms, mildly. Particularly in ADHD. And I don't think I'll ever get them to understand the severity of my symptoms. Nor will I ever get people with AS to understand the severity of my symptoms.

Lack of motivation can be an executive function issue too. In my case, I cannot use external incentives to generate motivation. I have to genuinely want to do the thing, otherwise I can't do it. Others can just knuckle down and 'make themselves' do the thing, I can't.