Service Animals

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First off, I have no idea where this topic should be posted..

So my family and a friend and I all agree I should live on my own but in order for me to live on my own I can't be alone, I need a companion animal to be there for me and to help me when I goto the store but I come to find the expense to high, it's stupid that a service dog will cost as much as a cheap new car and all the places I seen have years long waiting list and require the amount up front, well there goes any chance right there of me being able to live on my own! How do disabled people short of robbing banks and begging family who are poor to fork over the money afford these, it's backwards.

Also, the ADA excludes these dogs and you can't bring a emotional support dog into public thanks to a DOJ rulling that changed the law, so no longer are you able to have a emotional support dog with you so you can feel safe and comfortable shopping but you also can not have one living with you in apartments which are section 8 or in general as there is NO protection for it.

They now define service animals as dogs who must be trained and certified to do physical tasks for an individual. Yet I don't see how a dog to accompany someone who is otherwise not likely to go to the store to buy food or needs (that alone in many states is forbidden no matter if the dog is service dog or not according to the ADA, like in California, no dog is allowed in a food store period including service animals). All I can say is WTF?!

So in short, I will probably do as many are starting to do, break the unjust laws and do it anyway by making a fake certificate and having a harness I buy offline just so I can go out in public and live on my own for once rather than relying on others.

But first, does anyone know of states that override the federal laws in this respect I've hear both ways that New Hampshire does, but then I read the law and it seemed it doesn't but it is confusing.

I want so much to live on my own but it's been made illegal by proxy and prohibitively expensive. I am looking into group homes as people I stay with only deal with me for so long and my melt downs until I am thrown out, that is one law I can't wait for, making it illegal to throw someone out who you know has (documented) as having Autism.

Meanwhile I finally have a disability lawyer for the state and once we win with the state we move on to SSI which I have to start over from scratch, uhg, so long for things to happen all while I could loose my place to live at any melt down despite explanations from doctors to the guy I live with, it is hard to try and continue wanting to live when everything and it's mom are against you. x.x

So are there things I have overlooked possibly that may help me?

You have a lot of it backward or just plain incorrect, let me help a bit. I'm about to get my fourth SD, I've been in the SD world for over 15 years.

First off do you require an SD? Being on the spectrum doesn't necessarily mean you qualify for an SD. Do you require assistance to perform one or more major life activity? Are you capable of caring for a dog?

Service animals perform one or more functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself.

Fully trained SD's are allowed with their disabled handler in stores with food. A disabled handler is allowed to take their fully trained SD anywhere that the general public is allowed to go, with the exception of surgery rooms (obviously), places of religion (you have to ask permission) and private gov locations (you also have to ask permission). The SD never has access rights, they don't have any rights granted to them at all. An SD is only an SD in the hands of a disabled handler, so if my friend takes my dogs leash it's just a pet in their hands, again because the law protects the handlers right to have the dog accompany them, not the dog itself.

State law never overrides federal law. Sometimes state law is better suited to a situation, but it never overrides state.

SD's for autism are not emotional support animals so long as they are trained to perform one or more tasks (on command) that assists the disabled handlers needs. If said dog isn't task trained then the dog is considered an ESA's (emotional support animal) or glorified pets. ESAs have no public access rights.

Very few SD organizations train SD's for adults on the spectrum, they are usually for small children which make no sense to me. Children have parents to look after them (parents want SDs for their kids so they don't have as much responsibility which is poor parenting in my mind) many adults on the spectrum actually need independence and require an SD to function. I do.

For more info I highly recommend: http://www.servicedogcentral.org/

If you fake an SD you will be caught. I turn people in, done it in the past & will do it again every time I come across a fake 'team'. Anyone that stomps on legitimate SD team rights by bringing an untrained pet into a store and disrupts my trained SD or has my SD kicked out for false claims of disruptive behavior when it was someones pet, it pisses me off. I won't stand for it. There are a number of reasons that end you up in court -- if you can't prove to a judge that you are disabled and require an SD you will be fined for faking. Have you looked up the California code fines and jail time for faking an SD? I can provide them for you if you like. I take faking very seriously. Don't even go there.

Last edited by Wrackspurt on 24 Feb 2013, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Beyond the fines and jail time that are possible,

most dogs just do not have the temprement required to be a service dog. Most dogs cannot take that stressful of a situation. To take a dog that is not capable of that into that situation is a huge bite risk, which would lead to your dog probably being taken from you and euthanized because of biting someone in public.

Service dogs do help people with autism, but they are NOT just there for making you feel good. They do take a huge amount of training - there is reason they cost so much - people who train them themselves find it costs a lot too, and faking it will make it worse for everyone with a disability and will risk your dog being killed because of your actions.

(I disagree with the description of ESAs as glorified pets - my ESA is more than a glorified pet - I've had pets and I've had an ESA and there's a huge difference even though she doesn't go in public with me, but I don't have public access rights for her, this is true.)

Instead of faking, why don't you look at ways to actually get help? What do you actually need help with? How do you actually get that help, whether its from a dog or otherwise? There are many resources for help for people with disabilities.

So, what are your impairments, what do you need help with? What can't you do any why? Find ways to work around the problems instead of assuming a dog's presence will fix it all when its illegal for good reason.

Maybe it involves a dog, maybe it doesn't. Maybe it involves an ESA and other solutions elsewhere. Maybe it involves a service dog that is a true service dog.

There are solutions though.

It's too bad that "actually need" and "legally determined to need" and "can afford the expenses" are three different things.

Maybe your lawyer can tell you how people afford it. Disabled people are generally poorer than average, so there must be (I hope) a way for non-rich people to get what they need.

Heh. In Canada, the only people who can get a service dog for little to no money are war vets- Not saying they don't deserve the help, just saying it should be open to more people (even if it's just people who suffer PTSD from other things) or at least discounts given by the people who do the training. If there are grants for it out there, it's near impossible to find, because I've been looking over a year as I want to get my cat certified.


HOWEVER, in my province, Emotional support animals are allowed to go with you anywhere that a certified service animal is- You just need a letter from a registered nurse, General Practitioner, or Therapist stating you require an emotional support animal, and it has to have their signature, etc.

Maybe look into that to begin with? It still takes a special animal to be up for the challenge. I'd definitely recommend getting it trained beyond puppy basics- I know some obedience trainers have also been certified to train service animals, they may be willing on helping you out for a lower price, it's worth a shot to look into if the emotional support animals have the same laws here as they do there.



DO NOT fake the stuff, please. Not only would it be bad for you when you got caught (and yes, they will catch you eventually) but every time someone does something like that, it makes it harder for the honest people who have real SD's to get into the places they need to be, because someone made the employees too suspicious to allow real ones without hassle.

My task trained service dog just retired and I am thinking long and hard about whether I want a successor dog. While he definitely helped me be more independent he also upped my anxiety about going out.

I have trouble speaking to strangers. Service dogs are people magnets. Every time a handler goes out they get questions about their dog and health from complete strangers. Then there are the idiots who do not talk to the handler and just start touching/distracting the dog. The handler has to protect their dog from these people as much as possible. Mostly I had to say, "Do not touch my service dog, he is working," over and over.

Sometime people do weird things. My service dog was stood on, punched in the nose, slapped on the but repeatedly, poked in the eye, awoken from a nap by a toddler crawling all over him, intentionally run over with shopping carts, handfuls of hair pulled out, dangerous food (chicken bones) and the hand holding them were shoved in his mouth, etc. He just stood there waiting for me to fix everything like he was trained. If he bit any of these idiots I would have been liable for the damages and he could have been euthanized as a dangerous dog.

My service dog was trained for 2 years to work reliably around the public. I stilled worried about his behavior in public. I worried about how he would respond in an emergency situation. A dog who tries to protect their unconscious handler from rescue workers will be shot by police. My dog loved food. Every time I saw food on the floor I worried would this be the time he broke training and tried to get it. Hoovering is self reinforcing so a service dog can never be allowed to succeed. In addition to the fact the food might be dangerous by itself animal rights activists have tried to poison service dogs "to free them from slavery".

Working dogs are more likely to be attacked than pets. My service dog was charged several times by fake service dogs in stores and loose dogs outside. I was lucky in that my dog was never physically injured but others have not been so lucky. Many handlers carry pepper spray or a tazer to protect their dog.

Bottom line: public access work is dangerous for dogs. There is a very big down side to having a service dog in public. I have barely scratched the surface. Forcing an untrained, untested dog to do public access with a disabled handler is a disaster waiting to happen and the dog may end up paying the ultimate price.