Maxine Aston and other researchers

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Please could anyone who has anything to comment on the work of Maxine Aston and some other the other researchers who claim to understand (or even treat AS or autism) please share it with the rest of us.

Please understand that this is not a thread for people to vent any vitriolic abuse aimed at any researcher who works on autism or aspergers. Feel free to attack or find holes in a person's hypothesis and work BUT not the person.

I have a special interest in Maxine because while people such as Lorna Wing and Tony Attwood do publish their findings in the peer reviewed academic literature, Maxine appears not so have done so. Her apparent avoidance of peer review does ring alarm bells in my mind.

Maxine has expressed the view that association with a man who has aspergers syndrome can cause his wife or partner to get a disorder called "Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder" (http://www.maxineaston.co.uk/cassandra/). To the best of my knowledge she has published nothing in the peer reviewed literature on the her findings.

Maxine's theory of "Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder" is only too real with regards to my wife.

I reject the use of this theory against AS spouses in Divorce and custody hearings by unscrupulous lawyers. Once the spouse has been diagnosed with AS the theory becomes void because of awareness by both partners IMO.

I am posting to remind everyone C.A.D.D. isn't an exclusive NT disorder. I think I might have it and I am UnNT. I developed it after years and years of dealing with NTs who have little demonstrable empathy for me or my situation, have said wretchedly horrible things to me, have lacked understanding or any sort of sympathy for my situation.
Most of this I experienced while in school and employed. None of the perpetrators were under the spectrum, that I knew of. They were what autistics call "NTs".
They were just mean spirited, ofttimes malicious, uncaring people of all ages and both genders. They had no excuse, really. They were just that way. It was their choice.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 06 Dec 2008, 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

You can go a further step, question how valid Maxine's work is. I would suggest fighting fire with fire, point out that "Cassandra Affective Deprivation Disorder" is not in the DSM and that it is the creation of a person who not clearly proven the existance of it.

I say that the burden of proof in science is on the person publishing to show that their ideas are true, it is not the other way around.

I don't know if it exists or not, OP, but if it does I must surely have it considering how I have been treated by people, in general. If anyone can possibly develop C.A.D.D. that would be me.

I've read "Aspergers In Love" by Maxine Ashton and although there is some good stuff in it, I was left quite irritated by the undercurrent of an anti-AS tone. I'm not surprised about her "Cassandra Complex" work. She'd be better off researching why 50% of NT/NT marriages fail rather than focussing on a tiny minority who are picked on enough as it is.

There are blatant double standards leaping out of that book. When an AS man has an affair, he is to blame because his AS makes him "cold and unemotional" towards his partner. When the female NT partner has an affair, then again it is the AS males fault because his "cold and unemotional' nature DROVE her to it!! ! I have many issues with this. Surely AS loyalty and desire for stability makes us LESS likely to be unfaithful? Could the NT partner be distorting the truth to put themself in better light? NT's are better than Aspies at this, but this is not examined in the book. It is not science, just a biased opionion based on talks with a very small sample. Deeper analysis is needed to weed out the truth.

Another example that crops up all over the place: The AS partner may want to go somewhere, the annual train spotters convention or something (the book is almost as cliched as this!) and the problem is he is *totally insensitive* to the fact his NT partner is not interested. Yet when the NT partner want to go to some hyper-social mass gathering(!) somewhere. Now the problem is again due to the AS partner because he doesn't understand that he has a duty to accompany his partner and damn well look like he's enjoying it!! !

Is it that difficult to spot the inconsistency and total NT bias in these scenarios? To be fair, maybe she's not anti-AS so much as anti-male. There's a lot of it about.

She never considers (in the book) that the NT partner may well have psychological issues of their own. This is sad because I think it a really interesting aspect that needs exploring.

And Maxine Ashton is only the thin end of the wedge. During the 3 years I've been reading about AS, the amount of books written about it has gone crazy, as has the content. I don't bother even looking anymore as the increase in quantity surely has not been matched by an increase in quality.

The 'psychological' books are full of stereotypes and cliches and empty of objective, critical analysis. The 'self help' books (of which there must be a thousand by now) are over simplistic, trite and at worst, exploitative. And then we have the autobiogrophies. "How I learned to love the bomb and my Aspergers". Got to be tactful as some of the authors may be reading this..(Hi Maxine!) My only comment is that it's odd that you have to wait till the 'happy ending' before you write the book. Especially odd when you're less than 30 and still have many years left for AS to screw your life up big time.

You want a book deal? Try this. Start with a title "Coping With X When You Have Aspergers". X can be anything that people with Aspergers have a problem with. "Dating" is a good one. "Work" another. How about "School" or "College" or even "Sarcasm"? Not sure if they'd allow "Idiots" to be the topic, though....

Now trawl the web and copy down anything you can find on X. The more obvious and simplistic, the better. Your readers are desparate to find help, so quality control can be non-existant. Problems coping with College? Mmm..how about this: "Talk to somebody in authority at the college about your problems". See, thats all it takes. So easy a 10 year old could it. Provided they had an over inflated ego and a lack of integrity. Together with a LARGE FONT, some unfunny cartoons and an index that has 'index' as an entry, you'll soon be at the 150 pages required.

And that is how to get a book published the easy way in 2008.

I was actually diagnosed by Maxine.

I chose to go to her specifically because she has a reputation for underdiagnosing and generally disregarding ASD women. I figured if it was all in my head and there was really nothing wrong with me, she'd be the one to tell me I was full of crap.

Overall I found her to be rather condescending and at times insulting. She had a weird sickly-sweet attitude that just didn't sit well with me. A lot of the things I thought were important she barely listened to, and a lot of the things she focused on were seemingly trivial and/or false stereotypes. There were many things that weren't even touched on simply because she didn't ask appropriate questions. She was so vague I spent most of the appointment trying to get her to clarify what she was asking. You think someone who does so much with ASDs would have some semblance of their need for direct communication.

Her office was full of copies of her own books with price tags on them.

I was diagnosed, but do I trust her? No, not really. I wouldn't trust anyone who blatantly looks down upon the people she claims to study and help. One day when I have the means I'm going to be assessed by someone else just to see the difference. If Maxine, with her reputation with women, diagnosed me as being at the HFA/AS border, it makes me wonder where I really belong on the spectrum.

A bias exists. It would have to exist since Maxine Aston is trying to specialize and eek out a reputation as some sort of expert in this area. Therefore, she is going to use a lot of hyperbole in selling her ideas to NTs. Women often respond to hyperbole. Suddenly anyone in a relationship with someone that doesn't like the same things as themselves will be under intense scrutiny. I seriously question the validity of work. A double standard does exist, due to her pandering to NTs, who happen to be her demographic.

Let us look at the publication record of other people, I have chosen some at random from a series of UK university psychology departments. If you look at all of them, they tend to show their peer reviewed publications openly. Why then does Maxine have no mention of proper publications on her web site ?

My advice to Maxine if she is reading is to make a point very quickly of telling the world on her web site of her peer reviewed publications so that people can make a true and reasonable assessment of the value of her work.

For the web pages of the random people I choose see below.

Dr Lisa DeBruine
http://www.facelab.org/debruine/Publications/articles

Prof Cheryl Haslam
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/hu/staff/hucoh.html

Deborah Serrien
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/psychology/ ... r=personal

Dr Piers Fleming
http://www.uea.ac.uk/swp/people/pfleming

Dr Rachel Hayes
http://psychology.exeter.ac.uk/profiles ... chel_hayes

Dr Yvette Morey
http://people.bath.ac.uk/ym206/document ... 202008.pdf

If any of you were to set foot in my office, first I would ask how on earth you have worked out who I am and secondly I am sure that you would not find any books written by me for sale there. An office should not be a book shop !

I just checked out Maxine Aston's website. It doesn't seem too bad, at first glance. I don't buy into that kind of marketing, but I guess, lots do. I don't think she is intentionally pointing fingers, just trying to sell books to people who might want to read them.
She offers practical tips in her self help books.

As far as C.A.D.D. goes, I don't know what to thnk of it. It does seem possible, but not the way Maxine Aston describes. I think it can happen to anyone, not just spouses of those with Asperger's Syndrome. It might also occur in people who aren't given the credit they deserve. It does happen.

NTs can be the biggest jerks. I have experienced my hardships at the hands of NTs. They can be manipulative, cunning, cruel, sadistic, evil and thoroughly rotten. I think NTs can have empathy and then carelessly and thoughtlessly cast it aside and be evil anyway, which, to me, is worse than lacking it in the first place.

Publishing in a peer-reviewed scientific journal is not a guarantee of unbiased research. All sorts of pseudoscience has been published over the years proving that vulnerable minorities are lesser human beings. Research like this fueled the Holocaust, forced sterilization in North America, etc. Unfortunately even peer reviewed research is subject to the biases prevalent in society. (As are legal rulings from the highest courts.)

At the same time I think there is a place for the self-help genre. It gives people a way of getting information out there in a more informal way - it's more like therapy than research, in that it's as much an art as a science. If we had to rely on only peer reviewed science for help in solving our problems, we'd be toast. There are plenty of good books written by therapists, journalists, etc., that put good information out. I wouldn't want to do without them.

The problem with Aston seems to be that she is biased, rather than that her books are not peer-reviewed. Peer review does not remove bias. It does allow for standards in methods and in the reporting of results. If all she's doing is reporting her personal observations I'm not sure what difference peer review would make. It's not like she's doing experiments or formal surveys with statistical analyses. Those benefit from peer review.

I hold a view that peer review is not perfect but so far it is the best thing when it comes to making a judgement for the question "should this be published in an academic journal"

My advice to people is keep your wits about you even when reading the peer reviewed literature, but to trust the unreviewed publications even less. Science is not about instant publication but getting the greatest chance of the correct thing being published. On the other hand a news paper wants to be the first to publish news, in newspaper writing no one has the same time to check if something is true or not.

I also think that many papers get improved during the peer review process, I have sometimes had things rejected by the reviewers. I sometimes resent the reviewer at the time but then I normally go and fix the problems which the reviewer has raised and then resubmit.

What normally happens is that rather than just rejecting a paper, the reviewer will say what is wrong with it. The paper can then be improved and sent back in, it is hoped that if a paper goes through a few cycles of this that the end result will be worth reading.

"Emotional abuse" comes under PTSD.

You'd have to prove that the majority of undiagnosed individuals with an ASD "inflict" emotional abuse on those around them, objectively, and that any reasonable person can see that this "abuse" can be quantified from studies comparing undiagnosed ASD/NT relations and NT/NT relations, and that it is also of note statistically.

I see a lot of emotional abuse in NT/NT relations, and it's not given any special name (see: human affective disorder), other than PTSD if it's severe enough and causes psychological and/or physical symptoms.

I admit that we who are Vulcan aren't exactly the most warm of people, but having a different way of looking at emotions and logic isn't worthy of blame unless it's also pinned on those who see emotions and logic in a different way (see: "NTs").

Maxine Aston?? I found her book to be "a bit of light reading." I think i zoomed through it and felt unsatisfied at the end. If I am going to read on ASD's I want the info and not the fluff. Her work had some interesting stuff in it - but nothing new that was not said elsewhere. It was one of the first books i read on AS, and since then i have devoured many books and articles that I find far more interesting.

I checked out her website months ago and was irritated and also intrigued. it seemed a little odd to me. Not that there is anything wrong with odd - it is just that it wasn't my kind of thing.

I do remember vaguely that she did a study on women with AS. Then I read teh fine print or heard the fine print that the findings were based on only 5 women who were interviewed for her "research." Now, I am not into science and maths -not at all - i am a creative aspie - but i am fairly skeptical of a study that purports findings based on only several people! That just seems silly.

The other thing she went on about in the book (based on this study of women with AS !) was As women and violence. Now, regardless of whether that has been an issue for me in my life ( i struggle with my meltdowns because they are severe,) I actually found her reportage of this quite offensive....just too generalised.

I don't have any problem with someone writing popular stuff on AS. And i do not have any problem with someone wanting to get ahead in their life or creat a profile for themselves. If she wants to do that, then that is her business. I'm not into criticising her on those grounds. People could say Temple Grandin does this, or Attwood (it has been said on WP a lot) or say it of any number of "specialists" or academics in any field. So? SOmeone wants to make a go of things... I really cannot fathom why that is cause for criticism.

However, in reading this thread, the most interesting post for me has been from the woman who was dxed by Maxine Aston. Those views - concerning condescension and lack of substance and disregard of a client with ASD - resonated with me and fit with my general vibe about her from perusing her website.

It's not that she is trying to make a go for things and gain credibility as an expert in her chosen speciality. It's because she is talking about C.A.D.D. based on her exclusive research and pool of clientelle. She isn't submitting her research for peer reviews. This C.A.D.D. talk is sketchy, dubious and quite gimmicky. She wants to capture the Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus demographic and is using Aspie as a means.